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TOPIC: Squats and deadlifts: same day?

 
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February 27, 2013 12:45 PM
QUOTE:

I followed stronglifts 5x5, and every other workout i was doing squats and deadlifts on the same day. i only end up doing 1 set of 5 reps at my working weight, but still done on the same day

Edit: I squat first, then OHP, then DL


Me, too.
  10620094
February 27, 2013 1:15 PM
QUOTE:

with proper leg and core training you could even eliminate deadlifts. SQUAT TILL YOU DROP. best of luck


Second that!!!
  18816219
February 27, 2013 3:35 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

with proper leg and core training you could even eliminate deadlifts. SQUAT TILL YOU DROP. best of luck


Second that!!!


Not even meant to be ****ty... why would you want to eliminate them? Deadlifts are an amazing exercise. I remember several years ago when I did them for the first time. I had been lifting for quite a while at that point but never did a DL. Not only were my legs sore the next day, but my abs, chest, and traps were sore as well. Just do it! LOL
February 27, 2013 3:37 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

with proper leg and core training you could even eliminate deadlifts. SQUAT TILL YOU DROP. best of luck


Second that!!!


Not even meant to be ****ty... why would you want to eliminate them? Deadlifts are an amazing exercise. I remember several years ago when I did them for the first time. I had been lifting for quite a while at that point but never did a DL. Not only were my legs sore the next day, but my abs, chest, and traps were sore as well. Just do it! LOL


They can get in the way of squat progression, just like squats can impede deadlift progression. Just so damned many of the same muscles used for both.
February 27, 2013 3:43 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

with proper leg and core training you could even eliminate deadlifts. SQUAT TILL YOU DROP. best of luck


Second that!!!


Not even meant to be ****ty... why would you want to eliminate them? Deadlifts are an amazing exercise. I remember several years ago when I did them for the first time. I had been lifting for quite a while at that point but never did a DL. Not only were my legs sore the next day, but my abs, chest, and traps were sore as well. Just do it! LOL


They can get in the way of squat progression, just like squats can impede deadlift progression. Just so damned many of the same muscles used for both.


Exactly. Not to mention that both heavy squats and deads are hell on recovery. I eliminate one or everything starts getting compromised.
February 27, 2013 3:46 PM
QUOTE:

I followed stronglifts 5x5, and every other workout i was doing squats and deadlifts on the same day. i only end up doing 1 set of 5 reps at my working weight, but still done on the same day

Edit: I squat first, then OHP, then DL
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  33060262
February 27, 2013 3:51 PM
I also follow Stronglifts 5x5 as others here. There are 2 basic workouts that alternate.

Workout A
Squats 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5

Workout B
Squats 5x5
OHP 5x5
Deadlift 1x5

You are supposed to workout 3x per week so the progression is A-B-A, B-A-B and so forth. You end up doing squats 3x per week every week and deadlifts could be 1x or 2x. The exercises are supposed to be performed in the order indicated above.

As of my last workout on Tuesday my squat was at 120 lbs. and the DL at 165 lbs. For what it's worth I found the squat more challenging than the deadlift even on the first set. Maybe that will change as the weight increases.
  32785895
February 27, 2013 4:09 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

with proper leg and core training you could even eliminate deadlifts. SQUAT TILL YOU DROP. best of luck


Second that!!!


Not even meant to be ****ty... why would you want to eliminate them? Deadlifts are an amazing exercise. I remember several years ago when I did them for the first time. I had been lifting for quite a while at that point but never did a DL. Not only were my legs sore the next day, but my abs, chest, and traps were sore as well. Just do it! LOL


They can get in the way of squat progression, just like squats can impede deadlift progression. Just so damned many of the same muscles used for both.


Exactly. Not to mention that both heavy squats and deads are hell on recovery. I eliminate one or everything starts getting compromised.


If you guys aren't trolling, LOL, then my response is going to be that it completely depends on your programming. If you're doing ME work, then no you don't want to do both in one day. Something like full-body work, yes they can be for sure.
February 27, 2013 4:15 PM
QUOTE:

If you guys aren't trolling, LOL, then my response is going to be that it completely depends on your programming. If you're doing ME work, then no you don't want to do both in one day. Something like full-body work, yes they can be for sure.


Believe it or not, a lot of top end powerlifters very rarely train deadlift outside of their competition cycle. Once you have all of your foundation laid out (i.e. you can easily deadlift 3.5-4x your bodyweight) it becomes far less crucial to train it all of the time. For some reason, squat seems to be more of a 'use it or lose it' lift, whereas once you have the dead, you'll always have it, so long as you don't leave it to collect dust for months on end.
Edited by Gallowmere1984 On February 27, 2013 4:17 PM
February 27, 2013 4:33 PM
Not trolling here either. I add deadlifts to my routine for a few weeks a couple times per year. I've had periods where I didn't do them for years. To be clear, I'm not advocating that people do this, I'm just saying to the OP and anyone in a similar predicament that there are alternatives if you're hitting roadblocks
Edited by DavPul On February 27, 2013 4:35 PM
February 27, 2013 5:02 PM
Thanks all. I am finding this quite informative and interesting. God, I must be boring if I find weight lifting discussions interesting. lol
February 27, 2013 6:41 PM
QUOTE:

Thanks all. I am finding this quite informative and interesting. God, I must be boring if I find weight lifting discussions interesting. lol


That means all of us are boring? I mean...we all came here to answer. :)
February 27, 2013 6:47 PM
I do. heart Leg day! I squat first & then dead lift. This a plan my trainer has set for me & my partner.
  12417815
February 27, 2013 6:57 PM
I think we need to keep in mind the variation in levels here. As you get very strong then things change a lot.

For the majority of us, you can squat often and deadlift after squatting every now and then which is why some of the most common, oldest strength programs such as Bill Starr's 5x5 (ish)--which Starting Strength and SL5x5 are based on--are so popular and effective; they seem high frequency to bro splits, but are considered by many to be optimal for the novice and early intermediate.
A common angle to take is to squat as you do, but instead of deadlifting you can perform the romanian deadlift which isn't as taxing but is a fantastic assistance exercise for hypertrophy.

Also, some people are saying they can't deadlift after squatting. It's possible, since every powerlifter does this. It's much better to squat before DL imo, because squatting with tired spinal erectors is gonna be a bad day :D
February 27, 2013 6:59 PM
I do front squats after deadlifts on one day, and I do straight leg deads after squats on another.
February 27, 2013 7:03 PM
on tues I do squat followed by sumo deadlift and then do my other leg exercises...

then friday I do regular deadlift....
February 27, 2013 7:08 PM
You don't need to go heavy if you are runner, moderate resistance anything that is with in your comfort zone. By all means both exercises can be done same day, but I have no idea how is your training split looks like so I can't comment further.
February 27, 2013 7:08 PM
I do squats and Romanian deadlifts the same day, but compared to some of the other guys in here I am lifting a lot lighter.
February 27, 2013 7:16 PM
do it all the time.usually squats first deadlifts second
February 28, 2013 9:43 AM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

If you guys aren't trolling, LOL, then my response is going to be that it completely depends on your programming. If you're doing ME work, then no you don't want to do both in one day. Something like full-body work, yes they can be for sure.


Believe it or not, a lot of top end powerlifters very rarely train deadlift outside of their competition cycle. Once you have all of your foundation laid out (i.e. you can easily deadlift 3.5-4x your bodyweight) it becomes far less crucial to train it all of the time. For some reason, squat seems to be more of a 'use it or lose it' lift, whereas once you have the dead, you'll always have it, so long as you don't leave it to collect dust for months on end.


Agreed, but those same top-end powerlifters don't do back squats all the time either. From what I've read, many advocate box squats and don't actually squat until they're close to a meet. But I don't think the OP is a top-end powerlifter here. Also, many of those top-end powerlifters that follow a Russian Conjugate method / Westside method, they do some kind of squat and some kind of DL on dynamic effort days. Whether it's conventional, sumo, deficit, snatch, doesn't matter. Again, it's all in the programming and there's no such thing as a yes or no to the original post. It's all in your training program's config.
February 28, 2013 9:55 AM
QUOTE:

Do you squat and deadlift the same day? And, if so, which do you do first, and why?
I ask because they are both heavy lifts, obviously. I am a runner, so I squat almost every time I work out in the gym.
I do squats first, because I find it easier to warm up with squats, and it is a better warm up. But, I suspect I do not deadlift as heavy as I might because I do my squats first, and, therefore, get a little fatigued.
Thanks


If Boris Sheiko says it's okay, then it's okay.
  31477064
February 28, 2013 9:56 AM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

If you guys aren't trolling, LOL, then my response is going to be that it completely depends on your programming. If you're doing ME work, then no you don't want to do both in one day. Something like full-body work, yes they can be for sure.


Believe it or not, a lot of top end powerlifters very rarely train deadlift outside of their competition cycle. Once you have all of your foundation laid out (i.e. you can easily deadlift 3.5-4x your bodyweight) it becomes far less crucial to train it all of the time. For some reason, squat seems to be more of a 'use it or lose it' lift, whereas once you have the dead, you'll always have it, so long as you don't leave it to collect dust for months on end.



Agreed, but those same top-end powerlifters don't do back squats all the time either. From what I've read, many advocate box squats and don't actually squat until they're close to a meet. But I don't think the OP is a top-end powerlifter here. Also, many of those top-end powerlifters that follow a Russian Conjugate method / Westside method, they do some kind of squat and some kind of DL on dynamic effort days. Whether it's conventional, sumo, deficit, snatch, doesn't matter. Again, it's all in the programming and there's no such thing as a yes or no to the original post. It's all in your training program's config.


This is generally just multi-ply geared lifters. Raw lifters usually squat all the time
Edited by Loftearmen On February 28, 2013 9:57 AM
  31477064
February 28, 2013 10:08 AM
There are plenty of protocols that have squatting and pulling on the same day. It's a real ball-buster, but as long as you know that going into it, it's fine.

Another thing people do would be to have one session a week dedicated to squat&deadlift, but alternate which one was heavy (and then either just do accessory work or do the other real light). That would be something doable if your squatting is hurting your deadlift progression or vice versa and you're able to progress on a lift running it every other week (read: generally more advanced folks).

Some powerlifters don't even do much pulling (or squatting or benching for that matter, depending on skill and injuries) except when prepping for a meet. I think this is good advice but should generally be saved for the most elite lifters. If you aren't at that level, it's probably a good idea to do all your major compound lifts on a regular basis if you want to improve.

Key is to find what works for you. Myself personally, I squat once a week and pull once a week, and generally have 2 or 3 days between those sessions. If my schedule gets really tight, that's the first workout I'll combine, though I do it knowing I'll be sore as hell for the rest of the week.

Last thing, though I agree with Sara in most things, I really think you should always squat before you deadlift. I believe it's safer to squat before pulling.
February 28, 2013 11:47 AM
QUOTE:

Last thing, though I agree with Sara in most things, I really think you should always squat before you deadlift. I believe it's safer to squat before pulling.


That's really a good point. I found when I was on MC5x5 that I liked the day where you Squat and then DL. It's like a really good warm-up to get your ready for the squat. The squats on that day do not ramp up to a difficult weight. It is truly all about the programming that you're following.

In some methods, it might not be best and others it might be optimal just find what works best for you but don't say "no" you can't because of somebody's opinion. Do some research and find out for yourself how to split it up. Things like StrongLifts, 5/3/1, Starting Strength, Modern Trends in Strength Training, Westside Book of Methods, plus any articles posted on sites like EliteFTS are all great educational tools that pertain to weightlifting.
February 28, 2013 11:49 AM
QUOTE:



Last thing, though I agree with Sara in most things, I really think you should always squat before you deadlift. I believe it's safer to squat before pulling.


Not sure if you noticed my follow up after I asked a few questions.
  18358448

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