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TOPIC: Father brings his daughter into the men's locker room

 
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January 23, 2013 10:23 PM
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I'm sure the child predators really appreciate his willingness to make his 4 yr old daughter feel completely comfortable around grown naked men.


Because feeling frightened and ashamed at the sight of a grown naked man is how we should be raising our future women: be afraid girls, the mens are gonna rape you lolololol.

Also, if you think that's how child predators work, please don't ever have children.

Wondering if OP was so disturbed by this because he's a child predator himself. Did the sight of a little girl potentially seeing his wee-wee raise some odd feelings?

Seriously wish there was an eye-rolling icon available.


At what point did I say we should be raising our future women to be frightened and ashamed of any naked body be it a man or a woman's? I don't think it is appropriate to be exposing a small child to complete strangers who may be nude when there is another option available.

And yes, child predators will prey on children who feel comfortable being nude with them or being around them while they are nude, and they will be the first to tell them that it is no big deal ...it's just the human body... if you don't think this is how SOME (not ALL, let me clarify so you can't put any more words in my mouth) child predators work, please don't have children. I've raised 4 children and I've had experience with child predators... have you?

I too seriously wish there was an eye rolling icon
  5936591
January 23, 2013 10:32 PM
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you're totally justified! i'd call the cops. endangerment of a child and all that.


Are you kidding me? The cops have important things to deal with. Not about a little girl who is in no way endangered being taken care of by her dad. Please don't waste important resources like this.

This is not what the police are for. If the OP was uncomfortable with the little girl seeing him naked, he should have brought it up with management of the gym.


do you even have kids? the guy is endangering his daughter. the police are supposed to protect and serve, protect the girl by throwing the dad in jail.


I didn't realize I needed kids to know what the police are there for.
The police don't want you calling them because someone's parenting choice is different than the decisions you would make. They should fine people for abusing calling the police.

Her dad did nothing wrong. She was in his care the entire time.
If her dad sent her unsupervised into either locker room, I'd be more inclined to say the police should be called. There is nothing obscene or illegal about nudity in a locker room.


Thank you and not everyone has an issue with nudity.


Agree! Agree! Agree!


Exactly! People that have such an issue with nudity are the same ones that can wrap their heads around a mother breast feeding in public. Its a breast, its there to feed a child. Chill the f-out!! We walk naked around my daughter regularly. Its the human body, chill!!
January 23, 2013 10:47 PM
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you're totally justified! i'd call the cops. endangerment of a child and all that.


Are you kidding me? The cops have important things to deal with. Not about a little girl who is in no way endangered being taken care of by her dad. Please don't waste important resources like this.

This is not what the police are for. If the OP was uncomfortable with the little girl seeing him naked, he should have brought it up with management of the gym.


do you even have kids? the guy is endangering his daughter. the police are supposed to protect and serve, protect the girl by throwing the dad in jail.


I didn't realize I needed kids to know what the police are there for.
The police don't want you calling them because someone's parenting choice is different than the decisions you would make. They should fine people for abusing calling the police.

Her dad did nothing wrong. She was in his care the entire time.
If her dad sent her unsupervised into either locker room, I'd be more inclined to say the police should be called. There is nothing obscene or illegal about nudity in a locker room.


Thank you and not everyone has an issue with nudity.


May or may not have done much good to call the police. Depends on the state where it occurred and how their law defines abuse or neglect. In TN, no police action could be taken, it does not meet the definition of abuse or neglect as set forth by the state law. Excerpts follow.

TCA 39-15-401

1. Any person who knowingly, other than by accidental means, treats a child under eighteen (18) years of age in such a manner as to inflict injury...didn't happen, no injury occurred - thus no abuse or neglect.

2. A parent or custodian of a child eight (8) years of age or less commits child endangerment who knowingly exposes such child to or knowingly fails to protect such child from abuse or neglect resulting in physical injury to the child. No abuse here either, again no injury.

3. "Knowingly" means the person knew, or should have known upon a reasonable inquiry, that abuse to or neglect of the child would occur which would result in physical injury to the child. He knowingly took the child into the locker room, but no injury occurred. ALL elements of a crime must be present, not just some of them. An injury must have occurred to be abuse.

4. Any court having reasonable cause to believe that a person is guilty of violating this section shall have the person brought before the court, either by summons or warrant. That means no arrest till a judge says so and issues a warrant. No probable cause arrest by an officer.

It wouldn't be covered by public indecency because locker rooms and showers etc are specifically exempt under statute and are not considered public places. TCA 39-13-517 Sec B

At best, an officer would have submitted a report to the state DCS and let them investigate the matter. But as with ALL crimes, the issue goes to intent...did he intend to expose the child to nude people? Or was he a father who just made a bad choice? If the intent is absent, in most cases, there is no crime.
Edited by Chopshopcop On January 23, 2013 10:49 PM
January 23, 2013 10:52 PM
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you're totally justified! i'd call the cops. endangerment of a child and all that.


Are you kidding me? The cops have important things to deal with. Not about a little girl who is in no way endangered being taken care of by her dad. Please don't waste important resources like this.

This is not what the police are for. If the OP was uncomfortable with the little girl seeing him naked, he should have brought it up with management of the gym.


do you even have kids? the guy is endangering his daughter. the police are supposed to protect and serve, protect the girl by throwing the dad in jail.


I didn't realize I needed kids to know what the police are there for.
The police don't want you calling them because someone's parenting choice is different than the decisions you would make. They should fine people for abusing calling the police.

Her dad did nothing wrong. She was in his care the entire time.
If her dad sent her unsupervised into either locker room, I'd be more inclined to say the police should be called. There is nothing obscene or illegal about nudity in a locker room.


Thank you and not everyone has an issue with nudity.


Agree! Agree! Agree!


Exactly! People that have such an issue with nudity are the same ones that can wrap their heads around a mother breast feeding in public. Its a breast, its there to feed a child. Chill the f-out!! We walk naked around my daughter regularly. Its the human body, chill!!


I have zero issue with breast feeding in public, covered or uncovered, but I do have an issue with this. Nudity is one thing if the nude person is someone trusted, but he doesn't know all the men in the locker room. If he were to say, shower, she'd still be unsupervised. Is a room full of nude strangers the place for a child? Also, it is the men's room. They deserve to feel comfortable and have privacy. A 4 year old remembers things in detail, and I would be covering up if a four year old boy was in the locker room because it would make me feel uncomfortable. I know I'm not the only one who feels that way, either. (If you want to walk in front of your own child naked, that is perfectly fine, but it IS different than strangers).

edit to say: Throw him in jail? Child endangerment? LOL
Edited by Kenzietea2 On January 23, 2013 10:54 PM
January 23, 2013 11:37 PM
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you're totally justified! i'd call the cops. endangerment of a child and all that.


Are you kidding me? The cops have important things to deal with. Not about a little girl who is in no way endangered being taken care of by her dad. Please don't waste important resources like this.

This is not what the police are for. If the OP was uncomfortable with the little girl seeing him naked, he should have brought it up with management of the gym.


do you even have kids? the guy is endangering his daughter. the police are supposed to protect and serve, protect the girl by throwing the dad in jail.


This guy is keeping his daughter safe by keeping her with him. And I have 2 kids, a boy and girl, age 5&6. There is nothing wrong with nudity. Its only a big deal when someone sexualizes it. Like you seem to be. My 5 year old son still showers with me on occasion. I suppose I should be in jail in your opinion?


Are you comfortable showering in front of another 5 years old boy? There is a family locker room, but the dad didn't use it. Why is that? He can still watch her there and keep her safe.
Edited by wmoomoo On January 23, 2013 11:38 PM
  17807897
January 24, 2013 12:00 AM
To me that's uncalled for.....

But I really don't have room to talk. I remember a couple of times while my husband was deployed I took my boys swimming (I had a 6 mos old and a 4 year old). I planned on taking them to the family restrooms but they put them inside the men and womens' locker rooms. Who ever thought of that was insane.

With my luck all of them were full and 2 out of the 4 were occupied with just one person so we had to stand there and wait. Of course I made my 4 year old son turn around and face the wall but I still had ladies screaming at me because he was too old.

Now if he didn't have access to a family bathroom that'd be a little different story but common utilize them when you have them. That is what they are there for!


Now I see alot of people are saying call the cops I think that is a little over the top. Talk to the parent first if you guys can't come up with a solution or he just refuses to listen take it to management.
Edited by lovelyladyJ21 On January 24, 2013 12:01 AM
  32152628
January 24, 2013 12:14 AM
Why do a lot of people here see a problem with a young girl in a men's room, but in my experience nobody bats an eyelash when a young boy is in the women's room with mother? Why the seemingly sexist viewpoint?

And to the comment that asked "where was the mother?" Um... not tied to the hip of the husband and child at ALL times... even if they are married. Can't a parent care for their own kid without the same-gendered parent?
January 24, 2013 2:14 AM
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... i'd rather have my daughter fear grown men than be comfortable with them being naked.


If this is your real view on life, I feel VERY sorry for your daughter. I do not say this lightly, you need to seek help for your issues with men!
  4348426
January 24, 2013 2:19 AM
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you're totally justified! i'd call the cops. endangerment of a child and all that.


Are you kidding me? The cops have important things to deal with. Not about a little girl who is in no way endangered being taken care of by her dad. Please don't waste important resources like this.

This is not what the police are for. If the OP was uncomfortable with the little girl seeing him naked, he should have brought it up with management of the gym.


do you even have kids? the guy is endangering his daughter. the police are supposed to protect and serve, protect the girl by throwing the dad in jail.


This guy is keeping his daughter safe by keeping her with him. And I have 2 kids, a boy and girl, age 5&6. There is nothing wrong with nudity. Its only a big deal when someone sexualizes it. Like you seem to be. My 5 year old son still showers with me on occasion. I suppose I should be in jail in your opinion?


Are you comfortable showering in front of another 5 years old boy? There is a family locker room, but the dad didn't use it. Why is that? He can still watch her there and keep her safe.


If I am uncomfortable showering in front of someone else's child, I would draw a curtain, or wait a few minutes until the child isn't there. you aren't REQUIRED to get naked, just because you're in the locker room. you also aren't required to shower RIGHT THIS MINUTE. Your premise is flawed. Yes, I agree that the family locker room would have been the better choice, what i do not agree with is all the people saying this man is hurting his child by having her there.
January 24, 2013 2:26 AM
iv seen wee boys older than 4 in the womens changing rooms with their mothers and no1 seems to care so why is it different for a father 2 do that?? are male bits wrong? As long as the child dsnt feel uncomfortable I dont see a problem, when shes old enough to feel uncomfortable then its weird!
  16022449
January 24, 2013 2:38 AM
My opinion is that it is really no biggie. From the horror expressed one would expect that there were a whole line up of naked strippers shaking their willies around and slapping each others butts!

Most likely is that there were one or two men, who would be dressed or partly dressed - some maybe totally naked for a couple of minutes whilst drying off.

I used to take my son into the changing areas at the pool with me and in public toilets until he was about 9. Unfortunately he is tall for his age, so probably looked older, but I never had any issue with women complaining about him being in there.

Maybe in the UK we are a bit more liberal with regard to nudity - no one bats an eyelid at topless sunbathing on the beaches in Europe.

Fair enough -there are family changing areas says the OP - but may be they were full? Or closed for cleaning? It would be more effective to speak to gym management about this rather than ranting at the man in front ofhis child - making a bigger issue than necessary.
  15729527
January 24, 2013 2:50 AM
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... i'd rather have my daughter fear grown men than be comfortable with them being naked.


If this is your real view on life, I feel VERY sorry for your daughter. I do not say this lightly, you need to seek help for your issues with men!


This! I know women who were raised to be afraid of men. It ends very, very badly.
  21619196
January 24, 2013 3:29 AM
For me, this discussion just reinforces the need in public areas to have clear and consistent guidelines that are enforced. Some people have legitimate differences of opinion and some don't have an ounce of common sense or common courtesy.

We have very nice family changing rooms, so we keep the rules simple: in the men's or women's locker rooms, all the parts have to match, otherwise use the family rooms. Yeah, sometimes you might to wait 5 minutest. TS.

As a group, people are not that rational, especially when it comes to their kids. I guarantee that I'd we let 2 yr olds of mixed gender in the locker rooms, in no time at all, some helicopter parent would be bringing in teenagers
January 24, 2013 3:38 AM
no not appropriate at all , and for vice versa, mother and son....gyms that allow children have family locker rooms, use those, thats why they have them, my gym doesnt allow children so I don't have this issue. But this situation would totally make me uncomforatable as well.
  19102823
January 24, 2013 3:40 AM
I wonder how many people that are freaked out at the thought of a girl seeing a flaccid penis are imembrs of the NRA? This is a very American perspective. A lot of people seem to equate nudity with sex there, yet in most american movies people seem to have sex with their clothes on.

That said, if I brought my daughter into a changing room and someone reacted like that, I would want to protect my daughter from them and their attitudes to nudity.

Anecdote: My brother in law brought my newphew into the gents changing room and he asked loudly: "Daddy, how come that man's 'penie' is waaay smaller than yours?"
Edited by iandevlin On January 24, 2013 3:50 AM
January 24, 2013 3:41 AM
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Really? This nimrod brings his 4 year old daughter into the men's locker room at the gym. I saw him do it a few weeks ago but couldn't catch him (I was too busy diving for a towel). What would you do? I lost it and confronted him. Probably didn't handle it too well. There's naked men walking around without towels. Am I insane or was this guy completely clueless?


This is very much about culture. I'd not react if this happened to such a young child around here. Nudity is not a taboo, and kids have seen naked men before. I don't think it's a problem if boys that age go with their mothers either.

I do however understand that it's more of a taboo for you. But consider that the father may not have the same background as you, and to him, you are the person with the problematic worldview. You see a little girl in a locker room, and you think about abuse and inappropriate exposure. He sees a little girl in a locker room, and he sees a child too young for anybody to harm, accompanying her loving father. In some parts of the world, his is the sane and sensible approach.

It might at least be worth considering before you get in his face. A polite discussion about what is culturally acceptable might be better.
January 24, 2013 3:42 AM
Have you used the family locker room and do you know if it is adequate?. The local swimming pools where i live have family 'cubicles', its basically a 3 ft square cell with barely enough room for 1 person to get changed nevermind a whole family. That being said, unless the child was there to change because she was using something in the facility she shouldn't have been there. Locker rooms do not need spectators.
  19505636
January 24, 2013 5:11 AM
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ok fine, maybe im the only mother upset by this, but there are other ways to not have your daughter exposed to naked grown men. drop them at the kids club. no club? leave them at home. cant do that? get a sitter. or if you have to go to the gym and bring your kid, dress to work out before you leave, then go home and take a shower.


Don't go to New Zealand. My Dentist and his wife have a son that married a woman from New Zealand and they were taken aback at first that their grand daughter's were on the beach topless. They looked around and all of the children were like that.

Most cultures don't sexualize nudity like Americans do. Americans have issues.


Most Americans I know are not like the people in this thread. Honestly, I'm American and have lived in the U.S. all but a few years of my life, and I've never heard the garbage spewing out in this forum about abuse, police, etc. There seems to be a group in here afraid of their own shadows and that see nudity as equal to sex. Its definitely not representative of this country. I'm also pretty sure that no one would walk up to a guy in the locker room and do what the OP says he did.
January 24, 2013 5:28 AM
I don't think I understand the problem, but I was raised with Native American beliefs, so nudity is whatever to me and most people in my clan. People nowadays make way too big of a deal out of seeing a naked body.
  15506024
January 24, 2013 6:07 AM
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I'm gonna go call my Dad and thank him for NOT exposing me to naked men when I was a little girl. OMG gross. noway

A few years ago I remember some little boy (about 5 or 6) in the women's locker room. He was staring wide-eyed, pointing at the women and yelling things like "Wow, look at those hangers!" and "That's a hairy one!" and stuff like that. tongue I did not disrobe in front of him. So I'm not really a fan of adults exposing themselves in front of children in general.

Everybody's got their own opinions, though. drinker


This is an example of HORRIBLE parenting, not a typical 5/6 year old. They don't think those things on their own, someone taught them to say that. If a child is raised the correct way, they might POSSIBLY ask a question out of curiosity if they haven't seen the opposite sex nude before. My daughter, the way I'm raising her, would simply not notice. Seriously. My husband and I both walk around naked a LOT during the summer. I live in Texas, and we can't afford to keep our thermostat at 72 degrees. Nudity isn't anything to us. It doesn't matter. My husband is a bit more shy than me, mostly due to his VERY conservative upbringing, while I was raised Native American, but I've presented this thread to him, and even HE says what the F**K is the biggie? She is FOUR, not 8 or 9.
  15506024
January 24, 2013 6:19 AM
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I don't really understand what's wrong with a four year going into the men's locker room with her father. So she might see a penis here and there. It's not like the men are smacking around their junk. My point is, she's 4. She doesn't see it as anything else except men with body parts like her father. Its not like seeing a nude man is traumatizing.

Unless they're doing the helicopter...that could very well be traumatic to see.


Seriously, eh??!! Not a big deal in the LEAST.
  3340
January 24, 2013 6:25 AM
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I don't really see the issue.....then again I've never been in a man's locker room, so I don't know what goes on in there......


i'm on the same side as you. i think people in this thread find it despicable that this 4 year old girl is being "exposed" to naked male bodies, but in my opinion that is a cancerous side effect of modern society that the nude male form is somehow supposed to scar the child for the rest of her life.

please. that is our natural environment (nudity). to think it will naturally scar a child is stupidity on stilts.
January 24, 2013 6:25 AM
GROSS....
January 24, 2013 6:26 AM
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Ammon......NO! A good father will use the FAMILY LOCKER ROOM!


Absolutely! It also ticks me off when mothers bring their sons into the women's locker room when there are Family rooms for that. I'm not talking little 2 year olds, I'm talking 5 year olds. Take them to the Family Room!
January 24, 2013 6:28 AM
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I wouldn't think twice if someone brought a 4 yr old boy into the women's locker room. I don't really see the big deal either. If there were family locker rooms available though then he's just an idiot.


^^ Agreed. It's your hang up not the little girl's or her dad's.

There's nothing inappropriate about a naked body.
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