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TOPIC: Ketosis Diets???? LOW carb HIGH protein??? Weight Loss?

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November 26, 2012 10:07 AM
Hi everyone! :)

I would like some information about 'Ketosis Diets' (Low Carb - High Protein). I could just Google it, but I'm more interested in personal opinions. :)
Does eating this way help with weight loss more substantially? How do you feel on this kind of diet? What is your energy level? I'm worried my energy levels will be affected.

What I read about ketosis diets is this --------- When you eat high amounts of protein and reduce your carbohydrate intake, your body goes into a state of ketosis. This means fat is being used for energy instead of carbohydrates.

I'd also be interested in meal ideas.

Thanks so much! :)
  7690954
November 26, 2012 10:10 AM
QUOTE:

Hi everyone! :)

I would like some information about 'Ketosis Diets' (Low Carb - High Protein). I could just Google it, but I'm more interested in personal opinions. :)
Does eating this way help with weight loss more substantially? How do you feel on this kind of diet? What is your energy level? I'm worried my energy levels will be affected.

What I read about ketosis diets is this --------- When you eat high amounts of protein and reduce your carbohydrate intake, your body goes into a state of ketosis. This means fat is being used for energy instead of carbohydrates.

I'd also be interested in meal ideas.

Thanks so much! :)


Think you need to do a bit more reading on keto diets, as they are moderate protein and high fat. Initial greater weight loss seen is due to glycogen/water loss, fat loss between a keto and non keto diet are not significantly different holding protein and cals constant
November 26, 2012 10:13 AM
QUOTE:


Does eating this way help with weight loss more substantially?


No. But it will cause an increase in water weight loss.

QUOTE:

How do you feel on this kind of diet? What is your energy level? I'm worried my energy levels will be affected.


Initially your energy levels will suck and then you'll adapt to it. I wouldn't recommend this approach if you're training with any sort of intensity.

QUOTE:

What I read about ketosis diets is this --------- When you eat high amounts of protein and reduce your carbohydrate intake, your body goes into a state of ketosis. This means fat is being used for energy instead of carbohydrates.


What you weren't told is that acute substrate utilization is really, really irrelevant when it comes to NET change in fat. What matters a great deal is the difference between fat storage and fat oxidation. THis is governed largely by caloric balance.

Any time someone mentions things like "sugar burner" vs "fat burner" I cringe inside. It demonstrates a very big lack of understanding about the bigger picture and it focuses on very short-term and meaningless things.

Until there's a significant amount of research showing a metabolic advantage to low carb diets with matched calorie and protein intakes then this short term idea of "what you're using for fuel" is just mental masturbation for lack of a better term.

Now all that being said, this doesn't make low carb useless or bad and I'm not bashing the approach itself.
November 26, 2012 10:15 AM
Most weight lost on a ketosis diet is water weight. Sure, you burn SOME fat, but all in all it's water, and here's why. When you cut carbs low enough to go into a state of ketosis, you're liver produces ketones to be used for energy since your body lacks the carbs it needs to produce energy. This in turn causes your liver to over load itself, and if kept on this diet long enough, could cause liver damage. Since your liver is what filters your urine, more water is used to try to keep your liver cleaned out of the ketones, which are very acidic. (ketoacidosis) Instead of trying all these fad diets, why not just have a lifestyle? everything in moderation, eat clean as much as possible, and the more fruits and veggies the better, without of course being a full on vegetarian.
November 26, 2012 10:15 AM
I found it works in the short term. I tried Medi-weight loss (800 cal/day and no more that 25g of carbs - yikes!) It worked short term, but the supplements, shots, Dr. appts. tiredness, cravings, and crankiness just wasn't worth it.

I did it with 2 co-workers:
One gained all the weight back, plus some.
One is still kind of doing it and kind of losing weight,
I switched over to healthy and clean eating with exercise and that works best. I still try to keep my carbs low (~100/day). It is slower but it is much more realistic, HEALTHY, and sustainable.

Fad diets don't work long term. Sorry... I had to learn this one the hard way too.
  6965061
November 26, 2012 10:27 AM
Several years ago I did a ketosis diet. I ate about 1600 calories a day. I could not do any substantial exercise outside outside of walking because I just didn't have enough energy or strength to keep it up. Also, the diet specifically stated not to do any intense exercise. I lost weight initially while feeling comfortable with the amount of food I ate. I got pregnant several months into it and had to start eating normally and I was very sick for about 6 weeks. Personally, I wouldn't do it again.
  5491015
November 27, 2012 1:22 AM
Before you make any decisions, it would be best to talk to a ketosis source. My husband decided to do the program. I have recently started one myself. The company we went with was Farmcology. My husband has done remarkable (lost 20 lbs so far) and looks incredible. There are stages to this program and he is now in stage 2. The whole purpose is not to stay on ketosis for the full time but more to reset the pancreas and insulin levels due to overuse by many of us.

The risks for obesity are extremely scary and risky too. If you are going to do such a program, I think its best to go with one that is established and safe and is approved by a doctor. Safe programs will test your blood levels and perform other tests to ensure that you are doing it right and staying safe.
November 27, 2012 1:30 AM
i do KETO for fat loss , it works for me ... the fat adaption period is BS imo ... just keep carbs extremelly low, fats very high and protein moderate for a few days and ul be in keto ... if u do any sort of training then u should refeed glycogen stores once a week

fats 65% , protein 30% , carbs 5% = keto
Edited by Chadomaniac On November 27, 2012 1:31 AM
November 27, 2012 2:23 AM
I've run cyclical ketogenic diets a number of times over the years for my cutting phases. Initially, you drop a lot of water weight, but after that I never had a problem losing 2 lbs or more a week. The amount of fats in the diet keeps me from feeling hungry, and that is the most important factor for me. Smaller meals that keep me full amount to less total calories at the end of the day. Calories are still king, and a ketogenic diet won't work if you're not in a deficit.

There is a keto group on this site if you search for it. You might get more personal experiences there.
November 27, 2012 2:36 AM
I switch from Keto diet and back to regular watching I eat all the time. Honestly, the reason you lose weight in keto is because you are restricting calories. It's the same as losing weight through calorie counting.

Personally I feel fine on keto. I like it because it really stops me craving food. When I am just counting calories and eating carbs I feel a lot more hungry on the same amount of calories. So "managing" what I eat is easier for me on a keto diet.

But I do get bored lol. Which is why I switch between the two. The first week or so weight loss is dramatic but as others have explained your glycogen stores empty which is why there is this big decrease. You should lose fat at pretty much the same rate as restricting calories after the first week or so.

Having said that, I do tend to lose weight faster on Keto. But it could be that because of the reduced cravings I am actually eating less calories. Plus the fat (moderate protein and high fat on a keto diet is best for most) satisfies you and makes you feel full so you are eating less.

If I lost 10lbs over two weeks on keto, I would probably gain about 5 back once I re-introduced carbs. So a net loss of 5lb..... which could be achieved just by restricting calories if I wanted. But I do find it easier to control my eating on keto so it feels easier, but gets boring lol.

It can't really hurt to give it a try. If it works for you then you might find a great way to lose the weight, it's just a way of controling the food you eat so that you can eat at a calorie defecit to lose weight.
Edited by witchy_wife On November 27, 2012 2:37 AM
November 27, 2012 4:19 AM
Ketosis puts the body in a state of converting fat into a sugar-like substance (ketones) that the brain can use for energy. I found that I dropped weight at a brisk pace when I kept carbs low enough to get there. But it is important to eat a minimum of 20g of veggies while doing it.
  17181557
November 27, 2012 4:31 AM
Losing water weight is a good thing if it was excess to begin with. I've just started keto diet again and lost 10lbs in the first week and I know it's nearly all water but I feel so much less bloated I am fitting my clothes better, and that's just the first week,

Plus it really does stop me craving so much - i'm a terrible binge eater when I'm not in ketosis.

I think the guide is 65% fat 30% Protein and 5% carbs for a ketogenic diary. I usually manage around this but I do have to force myself to eat vegetables (it's hard to eat them when you're really not hungry lol)

Good luck :)
  9143791
November 27, 2012 4:34 AM
QUOTE:
Does eating this way help with weight loss more substantially?

I think this question is probably determined individually. Whatever lifestyle change you are able to sustain is the one that will bring you them most long-term success. That being said, if you are able to live without grains, sugars and the like, you may do very well on a ketogenic diet.

QUOTE:
How do you feel on this kind of diet?

Personally, I feel great. I have much more energy while requiring less sleep. I do cardio 3-4 times a week. A ketogenic diet has also left me without any symptoms of IBS or acid reflux, both which I suffered a great deal from, prior to going low-carb.

QUOTE:
What is your energy level? I'm worried my energy levels will be affected.

As stated, my enrgy levels are fantastic, I even feel I think clearer. There is the dreaded "keto flu" that some people go through lasting from a few days to a few weeks, it was not comfortable, but 3.5 months and 60 lbs. later, it is just a distant memory. If you work-out with intensity I would suggest looking into cyclical (CKD) or targeted (TKD) ketogenic diets. There is a wealth of information available online.

QUOTE:
I'd also be interested in meal ideas.

http://genaw.com/lowcarb/recipes.html this is just one of the websites I use for recipes. The possibilities are endless.

QUOTE:
Thanks so much! :)

You're more than welcome.

I suggest looking into the FAQ at http://www.reddit.com/help/faqs/keto

Edit:Spelling
Edited by Keto_Keith On November 27, 2012 4:35 AM
  27943158
November 27, 2012 4:39 AM
Nothing wrong with them at all. For many it's the first step in learning to control carbs. I now just try to keep carbs somewhere between 50-100 per day. The trick is getting through the induction period.
November 27, 2012 4:41 AM
Read these 2 books and you will learn everything about it.

The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living - Jeff S. Volek
The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance - Jeff S. Volek
November 27, 2012 4:42 AM
QUOTE:

Hi everyone! :)

I would like some information about 'Ketosis Diets' (Low Carb - High Protein). I could just Google it, but I'm more interested in personal opinions. :)
Does eating this way help with weight loss more substantially? How do you feel on this kind of diet? What is your energy level? I'm worried my energy levels will be affected.

What I read about ketosis diets is this --------- When you eat high amounts of protein and reduce your carbohydrate intake, your body goes into a state of ketosis. This means fat is being used for energy instead of carbohydrates.

I'd also be interested in meal ideas.

Thanks so much! :)



Have you heard of "Carb Cycling?" There is an article on Livestrong.
November 27, 2012 4:45 AM
QUOTE:

Nothing wrong with them at all. For many it's the first step in learning to control carbs. I now just try to keep carbs somewhere between 50-100 per day. The trick is getting through the induction period.


do you stay in ketosis at that level of carbs?
November 27, 2012 6:16 AM
The Volek books are really good. Check out DangerouslyHardcore.com for a lot of well researched information.
November 27, 2012 6:45 AM
QUOTE:

Most weight lost on a ketosis diet is water weight.


Interesting ... I've been on Atkins on and off for about three years, and I've lost over 60kg (~132lbs?) ... That's a helluva lot of water! :-)
On, because it's the only thing that works for me, I feel good on it, once I'm into it I can stick to it, I don't have cravings and I lose weight -
Off, because I believe in enjoying Christmas, birthdays, festivals, etc ... :-)

The only time I had trouble with energy was nearly drowning competing in 50m butterfly race - was winning, but body couldn't convert energy quick enough and thought I wasn't going to make last 2m. Was fine doing 2k training swim that morning, though. I teach swimming and aquafitness classes and feel better and have more energy doing it on Atkins.

I'm an all or nothing girl, I can't do moderation. Horses for courses!
Good luck, whatever you decide.
  11535967
November 27, 2012 11:16 AM
QUOTE:

Read these 2 books and you will learn everything about it.

The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living - Jeff S. Volek
The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance - Jeff S. Volek


This.

If you want to understand the science behind ketogenic diets from the preeminent researchers in the area, these are the two books you must own. They are authored by Dr. Jeffrey Volek from the University of Connecticut and Dr. Stephen Phinney from the University of California-Davis Medical School.

By the way, it's not a high protein diet. It's a low carbohydrate, moderate protein, high fat diet.
  25147453
November 27, 2012 11:58 AM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

Read these 2 books and you will learn everything about it.

The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living - Jeff S. Volek
The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance - Jeff S. Volek


This.

If you want to understand the science behind ketogenic diets from the preeminent researchers in the area, these are the two books you must own. They are authored by Dr. Jeffrey Volek from the University of Connecticut and Dr. Stephen Phinney from the University of California-Davis Medical School.

By the way, it's not a high protein diet. It's a low carbohydrate, moderate protein, high fat diet.


Lol, read the Volek and Phinney studies and pay particular attention to study design
November 27, 2012 12:09 PM
QUOTE:

Most weight lost on a ketosis diet is water weight. Sure, you burn SOME fat, but all in all it's water, and here's why. When you cut carbs low enough to go into a state of ketosis, you're liver produces ketones to be used for energy since your body lacks the carbs it needs to produce energy. This in turn causes your liver to over load itself, and if kept on this diet long enough, could cause liver damage. Since your liver is what filters your urine, more water is used to try to keep your liver cleaned out of the ketones, which are very acidic. (ketoacidosis) Instead of trying all these fad diets, why not just have a lifestyle? everything in moderation, eat clean as much as possible, and the more fruits and veggies the better, without of course being a full on vegetarian.


Umm....your kidneys filter your urine. Your liver filters your blood.
November 27, 2012 12:14 PM
QUOTE:

Hi everyone! :)

I would like some information about 'Ketosis Diets' (Low Carb - High Protein). I could just Google it, but I'm more interested in personal opinions. :)
Does eating this way help with weight loss more substantially? How do you feel on this kind of diet? What is your energy level? I'm worried my energy levels will be affected.

What I read about ketosis diets is this --------- When you eat high amounts of protein and reduce your carbohydrate intake, your body goes into a state of ketosis. This means fat is being used for energy instead of carbohydrates.

I'd also be interested in meal ideas.

Thanks so much! :)


Personally, I lose weight too quickly, don't sleep enough and become cranky if I'm under 70 grams or so of carbs. Without the carbs and sugar I don't do well. I don't care for supplements so without bread and grains I'll lack thiamin. For a quick loss of water weight in a few days I'll deal with it, otherwise I try to eat a more balanced diet, and as a female I like it high in dietary fat.

http://nutritionwonderland.com/2009/06/understanding-bodies-serotonin-connection-between-food-and-mood/
Edited by etoiles_argentees On November 27, 2012 12:14 PM
November 27, 2012 1:03 PM
[Redacted]
Edited by Spartan_Maker On November 27, 2012 1:05 PM
  25147453
November 27, 2012 1:05 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

Read these 2 books and you will learn everything about it.

The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living - Jeff S. Volek
The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance - Jeff S. Volek


This.

If you want to understand the science behind ketogenic diets from the preeminent researchers in the area, these are the two books you must own. They are authored by Dr. Jeffrey Volek from the University of Connecticut and Dr. Stephen Phinney from the University of California-Davis Medical School.

By the way, it's not a high protein diet. It's a low carbohydrate, moderate protein, high fat diet.


Lol, read the Volek and Phinney studies and pay particular attention to study design


Which studies? Give me a page and footnote reference.

It's ironic that you'd be able to find fault in "Volek and Phinney studies" -- whatever that means. In a previous thread, you cited a 1999 study for the proposition made in your post above where the "low carb group" wasn't even keto-adapted for 1/2 the study's length. If I recall, they may have even been performing some glycolytic exercise routine too. Even then, the low-carb group outperformed.

Do you know of any studies where the "low carb" group had blood ketone levels in or around 3.0 millimolar?
Edited by Spartan_Maker On November 27, 2012 1:22 PM
  25147453

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