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TOPIC: Horizon Eat, fast and live longer

 
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August 14, 2012 5:13 AM
Hello,

Alizon15 7 lbs in 8 days is great, well done!

I'm doing my very first 'fast' or low calories day today! I stopped eating last night at 7.30pm.

I'm planning on eating 500 calories. I've had a glass of milk for breakfast, a 240 calorie salmon and potato salad for lunch (thanks marks and spencers!) and dinner will be shredded crab salad and a cup of tea. Been drinking Green tea also.

Got 4 almonds in my pocket for emergency snacking! Haha. If i don't eat them whilst at work I'll put them on my crab salad.

I have to say, that I feel ok. :) No headaches or anything. I went for a walk to buy lunch and felt a little weak, but its quite warm and the shopping centre was busy.

I felt much more awake this morning as well on the way to work, which i wasn't expecting at all.

My tummy is more 'gurgly' - not making noise, but can feel it churning. I've just eaten though so guessing thats just my body catching up with processing things?!



x
August 14, 2012 5:24 AM
Hello everyone

I also watched the programme but didn't see any commentary on Googlefor a few day. Glad you guys are doing it, as this is my second day.

Yesterday I had:

coffee with light soya milk
two teas with skimmed milk
miso soup
two slices of best of both medium hovis bread and two slices of honey roast ham.
1tsp of flora light and some rocket leaves
two shots of Bombay gin and four slimline tonics

Today I have had:

coffee and soya milk again
tea with skimmed milk
mellow white miso soup
I may have a peach in the afternoon and a Greek salad for dinner.

I find it tough in the afternoons. Breakfast and lunch are ok. I am going for a walk now to get more water and some peaches.

The only issue is that I cycle most days during the week - which burns about 300 calories per day.

Anyway, glad other people are trying this diet out. My husband will also be joining me when he is back at work.

Well done Alizon. I am also looking forward to losing weight!
  27518645
August 14, 2012 5:41 AM
On a fasting day today and my stomach is rumbling!

Stick with it - it does get easier although I find I fantasise about what I can eat the next day. I also feel much more alert but agree that its easier to eat less when you keep busy ! good luck anyway the weight loss and health benefits are worth 2 days of hunger pains. :0)
August 14, 2012 6:16 AM
I'm on my first ever attempt at a fast - and as I have up to 500 calories to eat today, it's not really a fast at all! So far so good - I've had loads more water to drink than usual. Let's keep at it!

PS - You do know that you don't have to fast 2 days in a row? I decided to try out Tuesday & Friday as I don't HAVE to be active on those days this week.
Edited by beattie1 On August 14, 2012 6:41 AM
  18196540
August 14, 2012 3:06 PM
bump
  27738110
August 15, 2012 1:43 AM
Just completed week 1 and I have lost 3lbs.
August 15, 2012 4:11 AM
I checked this out because I have started this diet. It 600 cals at once - not sprerad throughout the day. The point is to 'starve' the body so it trips the SIRT1 into action. I have been having two porridge oat bars at 13:00 and a hot oxo drink (15 cals) at night. On my 'eat' days I am being good - not hungry so much anyway, so find my body is coping well. I have been doing it for two weeks now and have lost 5 kilos (11 pounds). I dont feel dizzy, I do feel a little less energy on the 'fast day' but nothing to write home about. When the hunger comes its true that it doesnt last - its just a craving for a while. I am drinking gallons of cold water and green tea on the 'fast days'. This is working for me - one thing I especially like is that on my 'fast day' I can get through by saying 'we eat tomorrow !' - and it works. Oh another thing - I am enjoyng my food more, it tastes great. Like the man in the programme said he dreamt about making sandiwiches - so have I ! I advide everyone to try it - just for a three day spell. I do alternate day - day eating day fasting etc. Good luck, Hodgie x
  27728645
August 15, 2012 7:14 AM
Bump!
August 15, 2012 9:42 AM
This does sounds interesting. I have been trying to find the program on iplayer to watch but it seems to have disappered.

I have been fasting for the last month ( religious fast) where you eat before dawn and after dusk. Iv been averaging 12-1300 cals a day and also been trying to get some strength and cardio as well and have lost about 3.5/4kg in 27days

Our religion also stupulates an optional 2 day fast per week throughout the year which iv not ever done, but seeing the health benefits that are being talked about here i may give it ago now.
  24204599
August 16, 2012 12:52 AM
I'm going to add my interpretation here too since there seems to be a lot of conflicting messages in this thread. I've watched the programme a few times to make sure I'm getting everything straight.

Now, what was being suggested in the trials was an alternate day fasting - First Day, eat pretty much whatever you want, second day, fast (400/500 calories for women, 600 for men), third day eat normal, fourth day fast and so on.

What Michael Mosely then looked at was the 5:2 diet - 5 days of normal eating and 2 days of fasting.

This is where the program (I feel) starts to confuse a little.

What the 5:2 trial is suggesting, is to eat normally for 5 consecutive days, then fast for 2 consecutive days eating your low calories all in one meal.

What Michael Mosely tried, was to modify this slightly so that he fasted on non-consecutive days, and ate either one or two meals on his fasting days.

However, from what I gather, to reap the health benefits of getting the body to start repairing, is to do the two days consecutively and eat just one meal at lunchtime on each of those two days.

I guess it depends on what you're aiming to achieve - weight loss, or the health benefits. For me, having lost the weight, I don't really need to lose any more, but I AM interested in the long term health benefits, so I'm going to try the two consecutive days of fasting, on work days so that I am kept occupied.
  1014400
August 16, 2012 3:44 PM
QUOTE:

I'm planning on eating 500 calories. I've had a glass of milk for breakfast, a 240 calorie salmon and potato salad for lunch (thanks marks and spencers!) and dinner will be shredded crab salad and a cup of tea. Been drinking Green tea also.


Haven't tried milk yet, sounds good I guess...

Just wanted to mention...I think you might want to cut down on protein there since, if I understood correctly, that was the point of the fast, to reduce IGH-1 hormone production by reducing protein intake. Other potential benefits as demonstrated on mice with Alzheimers might be growing new brain cells - so I guess that's what not eating the rest of the stuff is for? Come to think of it, why exactly are we not eating carbs and other nice things if cutting protein was the main idea behind all the body-repair-mode and life longevity?

Anyway, if the protein theory is correct, you have quite a bit of protein on your menu: milk, salmon, potato and crab! The fish has a ton of protein, so I wonder if you're over your regular-eating-day limit there, let alone a fast day.

I did 2 days this week, so I got smart on my second day and veg-ed up. Them Bloodymary Tesco Finest soups come in pretty big tubs of 200 KCal - that's lunch. Feeling a little tired comes and goes like a wave, a bit like the appetite waves, but other times I find myself extra-energetic, almost buzzing, and I wonder whether at that point my body tapped into the fat reserves? Waddayanow.

Black coffee with no sugar is an acquired taste, but half a cup definitely works on weak body with an empty stomach, it's almost a purist thing.

One other trick is Berocca (5 Kcal), in effervescent form. That will keep you going during an afternoon slump.

Cod liver oil has 0 Kcal.

Too much green tea will keep you up all night. I had the worst nights of sleep these last couple of days.

Also, sudden high intake of fiber (all the veggies) had an effect on my digestion big style, BM etc.. if you know what I mean, so seriously, plenty of water or you will be constipated.

Sugar snap peas are sweet, tasty, surprisingly low calories and are awesome, grazing on raw cabbage isn't too bad either, baby corns, carrots, raddish and CUCUMBERS!

I have a few questions on this 5:2 diet, but maybe they'll get answered in a few weeks when we do the measuring =]
August 17, 2012 10:45 AM
If I eat 1,000 and burn 1,000 isn't that the same as not having eaten all day? (ie fasting) so my body still has to find the cals to work body as I've burned everything off as soon as I've eaten it (get on pedals straight after each meal to burn equivalent calories).

Sometimes I'm even pedalling as I'm eating for snacks so its burned straight off and not going as extra stored fat. I thought it better than starving yourself as body still feels like its been fed so surely it will trick it to not slowing down metabolism? and exercise is also meant to boost metabolism?
  10577386
August 17, 2012 11:04 AM
Done my two fast days and although I was a bit short tempered and crabby during the two days I did lose weight (2.4 lbs) during the two days.

Found it easier than I thought, although the evenings where difficult (just needed a distraction- warning do not watch cooking programmes as a distraction!)

I will be stricter next time and do it from breakfast to breakfast the next day and only consume the 500 cals and see what happens.

I am also going to be doing next week 'crash lose a stone' (http://www.jaduncan.com/2006/04/how-i-lost-stone-in-week.html) Number 93 in order to try and help my mum lose some weight (she's a veggie and has high blood pressure, diabetes and is over weight and cannot exercise cause of her bad knees- too painful- so she needs to have a weight lost boost) If I can stick to it and do it she should be able to as well.

But in the long run, I will be doing the 5:2 programme, it is do able and sustainable for me personal.
  12295316
August 18, 2012 1:05 AM
Have done week one and two consecutive days fast with 500 cal meal at 6 pm each evening. Found it easy tbh and looking forward to this weeks fast. Have upped my exercise and continued to eat healthy for the rest of the week! No loss as yet tho :( but not letting it put me off! Have reduced protein but could do with restricting it a little more and am considering alternate day fasting! Keep logging.
Did find on day 2 of fast felt week and tired and felt a little off day three when normal healthy eating commenced. Onwards and upwards tho :)
August 18, 2012 1:37 AM
I've just done 2 fast days this week - Tuesday and yesterday (Friday), and found it better than I'd expected. I hadn't planned on being very active on either day, but laid a patio on Tuesday which burned thousands of calories, then did a zumba class yesterday (600-ish calories).

I found I got hungry quicker before meals were due on Wednesday - the first day after my first fast day, but - apart from dreaming about food this morning before I woke up feel absolutely normal.

I didn't weigh on the day after the fast days (of course the weight will seem to be down!) but had lost 1lb on Thursday morning and another 1lb on Friday morning. I'm looking forward to weighing tomorrow.
  18196540
August 18, 2012 9:51 AM
There is an article in the Saturday Telegraph. In the article he explains that due to lack of extensive research it is not possible to determine whether consuming all calories at one go, or spreading them out is more beneficial. He considers personal preference should be the guide. He also advocates the fast days should be spread out in the week.

My preference is to have a small amount of milk in the morning si I have one coffee with milk first thing, then save for one evening meal. I have fasted on a Tuesday and Thursday and a Monday and Thursday so far. I have a G.P appointment to review my BP medication. It is too soon to expect any significant changes, but I hope the reading and bloods I do now will be different from what my next review in December
August 18, 2012 10:12 AM
if you check out http://www.johnsonupdaydowndaydiet.com/html/how-to-do-the-diet.html you can work out your calories for down days / fast days. Cheers
  2989105
August 18, 2012 10:55 AM
i started the fast(600cals) the day after the show, the government guideline of 2500 cals for a man are huge really and normally ends up in huge men lol, people close to me are commenting that i look thinner already but like most people i just say i dont feel it yet. ive found the 600 cals quite easily manageable and surprisingly im not overreating on the normal days in fact im struggling to reach 1500 cals.
i spoke to my GP about it and she seemed vague about the whole process but said it couldnt harm me and im going back in 3 months to see the results of bloods and weight etc.
August 18, 2012 11:02 AM
QUOTE:

I'm going to add my interpretation here too since there seems to be a lot of conflicting messages in this thread. I've watched the programme a few times to make sure I'm getting everything straight.

Now, what was being suggested in the trials was an alternate day fasting - First Day, eat pretty much whatever you want, second day, fast (400/500 calories for women, 600 for men), third day eat normal, fourth day fast and so on.

What Michael Mosely then looked at was the 5:2 diet - 5 days of normal eating and 2 days of fasting.

This is where the program (I feel) starts to confuse a little.

What the 5:2 trial is suggesting, is to eat normally for 5 consecutive days, then fast for 2 consecutive days eating your low calories all in one meal.

What Michael Mosely tried, was to modify this slightly so that he fasted on non-consecutive days, and ate either one or two meals on his fasting days.

However, from what I gather, to reap the health benefits of getting the body to start repairing, is to do the two days consecutively and eat just one meal at lunchtime on each of those two days.

I guess it depends on what you're aiming to achieve - weight loss, or the health benefits. For me, having lost the weight, I don't really need to lose any more, but I AM interested in the long term health benefits, so I'm going to try the two consecutive days of fasting, on work days so that I am kept occupied.


I wrote a topic on this.

QUOTE:

Introduction
A friend of mine and I made a website. I wrote an article on the website about IF(Intermittent Fasting). I pretty much said it's pointless. He disagreed, he has found intermittent fasting beneficial for health. We ended up discussing the health benefits and fasting. We both concluded that that Intermittent Fasting does have health benefits if practiced correctly. Correctly means you're not there gorging yourself and offsetting the benefits that you gained. Many studies have concluded that calorie restricted diets promotes better health. This was my argument. His argument was that it's the fasting not the calorie restriction that promotes better health. When you fast you give your body a chance to rest so it can repair itself. To solve our little debate we had to go and do research. Turns out we where both wrong.


Discussion
It has been long known that low calorie diets reduce life span and improved health indicators in rodents. During the Great Depression, life expectancy increased by 6.2-8.8 years[1](dependent on source) in humans. Scientist believed that it was due to the reduction in calories, since it correlated very nicely with the rodent studies.

Newer studies suggest it's not calorie restriction that increased life span. It's lower serum concentrations of IFG-1(Insulin Like Growth Factor 1). IFG-1 is a hormone that has anabolic properties. It's very similar to insulin. IGF-1 correlates to protein intake. The higher your protein intake the higher the levels of IFG-1.[2]

Conclusion
Higher levels of protein shorten life span. The issue now is malnutrition and protein in take. How much protein should we consume? I had a source that says how much protein to consume to still get the benefits of lower IGF-1 levels. Unfortunately I can't find it. It did recommend eating the RDA recommend amount of protein. Now the obvious thought of many is what about muscle mass? Frankly, I think we have to make a decision in what we want. I think maybe humans aren't designed to have a load of muscle mass. Of course in the end it is your choice.

1.http://www.pnas.org/content/106/41/17290.full.pdf+html

2.http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1474-9726.2008.00417.x/abstract;jsessionid=9510D508585DACFCAFF2C791EECBA9D7.d03t02http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1474-9726.2008.00417.x/abstract;jsessionid=9510D508585DACFCAFF2C791EECBA9D7.d03t02

More info on IGF-1:
http://genomics.senescence.info/genes/entry.php?hgnc=Igf1
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100301091417.htm
http://www.cme.hsc.usf.edu/growthladder/presentations/files/24%20IGF-1%20and%20Aging-%20NB.pdf
  11390926
August 18, 2012 11:22 AM
QUOTE:

If I eat 1,000 and burn 1,000 isn't that the same as not having eaten all day? (ie fasting) so my body still has to find the cals to work body as I've burned everything off as soon as I've eaten it (get on pedals straight after each meal to burn equivalent calories).

Sometimes I'm even pedalling as I'm eating for snacks so its burned straight off and not going as extra stored fat. I thought it better than starving yourself as body still feels like its been fed so surely it will trick it to not slowing down metabolism? and exercise is also meant to boost metabolism?


Eating 1,000 and burning 1,000 isn't the same as fasting. Insulin is one of the driven hormones that triggers other hormones. So when you eat lets say 1,000 calories by noon and go burn it off. You have increased insulin when you ate those 1,000 calories. If you fasted those hours insulin wouldn't have been spiked. This means you'd get better hormone stimulation from the fasting.

You mentioned "peddaling" as you're eating snacks. I am assume you're talking about exercise and eating at the same time.That will just limit fat oxidation. When you eat as i mentioned insulin goes up. Which will block your fat burning abilities. It doesn't immediately get burnt anyways. Fatty acids in the blood stream get burnt as they're released. What you eat has to go through a process and it does get stored. You'll burn it off later. Not immediately.
  11390926
August 18, 2012 11:36 AM
I'm doing this too, along with some pals here. But we have some questions, which we have yet to find good answers to. Any advice from you guys would be welcome.

1. For people who are already relatively lean and don't want to lose weight, is it best to try to compensate for fasting in the 'eating window' or on eating days (i.e. up the calories)? We want to do it for the preventative health reasons, but risk disappearing altogether if we lose more weight!

2. There have been some questions about whether IF is effective - or as effective - for women, and there seems to be a general lack of scientific research into this. Anyone know of anything relevant?

BTW, there is an IF group here if any of you are interested: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/49-intermittent-fasting
  6416085
August 18, 2012 11:51 AM
QUOTE:

I'm doing this too, along with some pals here. But we have some questions, which we have yet to find good answers to. Any advice from you guys would be welcome.

1. For people who are already relatively lean and don't want to lose weight, is it best to try to compensate for fasting in the 'eating window' or on eating days (i.e. up the calories)? We want to do it for the preventative health reasons, but risk disappearing altogether if we lose more weight!

2. There have been some questions about whether IF is effective - or as effective - for women, and there seems to be a general lack of scientific research into this. Anyone know of anything relevant?

BTW, there is an IF group here if any of you are interested: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/49-intermittent-fasting


I think the reason you can't find any good answers is that nobody knows - not for sure anyway. All these different ways of scheduling fasting and eating windows are experimental & haven't been compared in a scientific way, with proper controls and a systematic approach. Welcome to the guinea pig cage!
  18196540
August 18, 2012 12:30 PM
You can watch the show on youtube here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfna7nV7WaM

I just watched it. Definitely leaves a lot of unanswered questions and obviously it is an n=1 with the IGF decrease, but it is interesting. I also am not interested in losing weight and still want to be able to exercise and strength train. Am curious about the restricting protein concept and whether the 500 cal days are enough to restrict protein "enough" or if overall protein needs to be restricted. Not sure whether I will try it or not but it is something to think about.
August 18, 2012 1:00 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/9480451/The-52-diet-can-it-help-you-lose-weight-and-live-longer.html

Found this link -- it's a general run down of the diet and answers some of the questions (rec. protein 55g/day, low cal days should not be consecutive, and it doesn't matter how the calories are spread throughout the day).
August 18, 2012 2:59 PM
QUOTE:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/9480451/The-52-diet-can-it-help-you-lose-weight-and-live-longer.html

Found this link -- it's a general run down of the diet and answers some of the questions (rec. protein 55g/day, low cal days should not be consecutive, and it doesn't matter how the calories are spread throughout the day).


OMG! I've just spent the last year and a half desperately trying to increase my protein, and now that I'm used to a high level, I find that I've got to bring it all the way back down again!
  6416085

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