Message Boards » General Diet and Weight Loss Help

TOPIC: Are Fat Loss Exercises a Myth?

 
Ic_disabled_photos
Topic has been inactive for 30 days or more and images have been disabled.
Display All Images
June 16, 2012 1:16 PM
As I have purchased "Eat, Stop, Eat", I received this email the other day from Brad Pilon the author, and thought I would share.

Quote:
Yesterday I spent some time reading through one of my old notepads.

Call me old fashioned, but when ideas spring into my head,
nothing makes them more real, more concrete than actually writing
them down (typing them out just doesn't do it).

I took an hour during the day when the kids were sleeping and read
through many of the old notes I have written down this year.

One particular note that stuck out to me was from a lecture I
attended for physicians that was headlined by Dr. Stuart Philips
from McMaster University.

In my notes I found the following quote scribbled down:

"It is remarkably hard to increase exercise and decrease body
weight."

which when translated to normal non-PhD talk means:

"It is really hard to lose weight by simply increasing the amount
of exercise that you do."

How true.

Believe it or not, most research trials examining the weight loss
caused by very low calories diets found that adding exercise did
little to increase weight loss.

The diets seemed to do all the work.

Take for instance the research conducted by Donnelly et al. that
was published in 1991.

69 obese women were put on an extreme 520 Calorie per day diet.

These women were then divided into 4 groups

Group 1 did not exercise
Group 2 did endurance exercise for 60 minutes 4 days per week.
Group 3 did strength training 4 days per week
Group 4 did strength training AND endurance exercises 4 days per week

At the end of the 90 days all 4 groups lost a mind
blowing amount of bodyweight, averaging over 40 pounds of weight
loss!

(Once again proving that anyone who says "It is impossible to lose
weight by dramatically reducing your calories." has absolutely NO
IDEA what they are talking about!)

The interesting finding was that there were no differences between
the four groups in terms of the amount of weight or body fat that
was lost.

This is despite the massive amounts of exercising that group 4 was
doing every single week!

This conclusion has been found over and over again in published
research.

Donnelly et al. did a second trial that was published in 1993
showing that weight training COULD INCREASE MUSCLE SIZE
while women followed an 800 calorie per day diet, but it could not
increase weight or fat loss.

Similar results were found by Kraemer in 1997, Bryner in 1999 and
Janssen in 2002, just to name few examples.

The truth is that if you have your diet in order and are following
a diet program that allows you to decrease your caloric intake it
will cause you to lose weight.

Adding 'calorie burning exercises' like cardio doesn't seem to
increase weight loss, but adding strength training can preserve or
even help increase the size of your muscles while you are dieting.

And, by preserving muscle mass, you make sure that the weight you
do lose if from fat (I guess this makes strength training the best
'fat burning exercise')

You already know that you can lose weight easily and effectively
with Eat Stop Eat, but is important for you to know that since you
are already following the Eat Stop Eat lifestyle you do not
have to be one of those people who spends countless hours in the
gym, pushing yourself as hard as you can but are not seeing
results.

Eat Stop Eat will take care of the weight loss for you.

Remember the Eat Stop Eat philosophy - Eat for fat loss, workout to
preserve (or even increase) the size of your muscles.

If you spend your energy in the right places, weight loss can be
easy, and does not need to include countless hours of wearing
your body down in the gym.

Your friend,

Brad
End Quote
June 16, 2012 1:23 PM
http://www.pbrc.edu/news/?ArticleID=150

" Despite dozens of controlled trials, the effects of exercise on the magnitude of produced weight loss remain uncertain. Many studies fail to show any significant weight loss. The basis for low weight loss in response to exercise remains unknown."
  18022302
June 16, 2012 1:28 PM
i did a gluten-free and dairy-free diet over a year ago in response to some infertility issues that were of no relevance to my weight. after being on this "diet" for a very short amount of time, i lost 17 lbs. did ZERO exercise.

after i regained a normal eating lifestyle that included dairy and a bit of gluten, i then started (for very different reasons than above) on a healthy diet plan with LOTS of exercise. i joined the gym, worked-out with weights 3/4 days per week and did cardio 6 days per week. it took significantly LONGER to lose weight using this method than the diet alone. HOWEVER, as soon as i "quit" the GFDF diet, i gained back every.single.pound i had lost. also, i had no muscle tone and was out-of-breath by doing the simple things in life.

now, i am in tremendous shape, i have MUCH lower body fat overall, and i feel amazing. exercise might not help lose weight, but it does 1000 other things that are more beneficial.
  3681656
June 16, 2012 1:28 PM
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/why-big-caloric-deficits-and-lots-of-activity-can-hurt-fat-loss.html
June 16, 2012 1:35 PM
QUOTE:

http://www.pbrc.edu/news/?ArticleID=150

" Despite dozens of controlled trials, the effects of exercise on the magnitude of produced weight loss remain uncertain. Many studies fail to show any significant weight loss. The basis for low weight loss in response to exercise remains unknown."


Thanks for the link....bookmarked
June 16, 2012 1:40 PM
QUOTE:

i did a gluten-free and dairy-free diet over a year ago in response to some infertility issues that were of no relevance to my weight. after being on this "diet" for a very short amount of time, i lost 17 lbs. did ZERO exercise.

after i regained a normal eating lifestyle that included dairy and a bit of gluten, i then started (for very different reasons than above) on a healthy diet plan with LOTS of exercise. i joined the gym, worked-out with weights 3/4 days per week and did cardio 6 days per week. it took significantly LONGER to lose weight using this method than the diet alone. HOWEVER, as soon as i "quit" the GFDF diet, i gained back every.single.pound i had lost. also, i had no muscle tone and was out-of-breath by doing the simple things in life.

now, i am in tremendous shape, i have MUCH lower body fat overall, and i feel amazing. exercise might not help lose weight, but it does 1000 other things that are more beneficial.


Absolutely agree, the benefits of exercise on improving cardiovascular is well documented, as is resistance training for building muscle, but these are not disputed in the post, merely that exercise does not help you lose weight.
June 16, 2012 1:44 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

i did a gluten-free and dairy-free diet over a year ago in response to some infertility issues that were of no relevance to my weight. after being on this "diet" for a very short amount of time, i lost 17 lbs. did ZERO exercise.

after i regained a normal eating lifestyle that included dairy and a bit of gluten, i then started (for very different reasons than above) on a healthy diet plan with LOTS of exercise. i joined the gym, worked-out with weights 3/4 days per week and did cardio 6 days per week. it took significantly LONGER to lose weight using this method than the diet alone. HOWEVER, as soon as i "quit" the GFDF diet, i gained back every.single.pound i had lost. also, i had no muscle tone and was out-of-breath by doing the simple things in life.

now, i am in tremendous shape, i have MUCH lower body fat overall, and i feel amazing. exercise might not help lose weight, but it does 1000 other things that are more beneficial.


Absolutely agree, the benefits of exercise on improving cardiovascular is well documented, as is resistance training for building muscle, but these are not disputed in the post, merely that exercise does not help you lose weight.



The link I posted may have some relevance as it deals with large calorie deficits where additional exercise doesn't seem to be of any benefit to weight loss.

However, I don't think the conclusion of "exercise doesn't help weight loss" is true under all contexts and circumstances. As an aside, I also think that it would be interesting to view the exact details of the studies to see what methods they used for measuring both intake AND expenditure.
June 16, 2012 1:46 PM
Is there any known body mechanism that would keep exercise calories from counting?
  8487736
June 16, 2012 1:48 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

i did a gluten-free and dairy-free diet over a year ago in response to some infertility issues that were of no relevance to my weight. after being on this "diet" for a very short amount of time, i lost 17 lbs. did ZERO exercise.

after i regained a normal eating lifestyle that included dairy and a bit of gluten, i then started (for very different reasons than above) on a healthy diet plan with LOTS of exercise. i joined the gym, worked-out with weights 3/4 days per week and did cardio 6 days per week. it took significantly LONGER to lose weight using this method than the diet alone. HOWEVER, as soon as i "quit" the GFDF diet, i gained back every.single.pound i had lost. also, i had no muscle tone and was out-of-breath by doing the simple things in life.

now, i am in tremendous shape, i have MUCH lower body fat overall, and i feel amazing. exercise might not help lose weight, but it does 1000 other things that are more beneficial.


Absolutely agree, the benefits of exercise on improving cardiovascular is well documented, as is resistance training for building muscle, but these are not disputed in the post, merely that exercise does not help you lose weight.


yea, i was agreeing. LOL i don't think i made my point very well. i was just saying that i noticed it didn't help me with weight loss, but did help in other areas. smile
  3681656
June 16, 2012 1:58 PM
QUOTE:
As an aside, I also think that it would be interesting to view the exact details of the studies to see what methods they used for measuring both intake AND expenditure.
I read the review paper I linked to, it was indeed critical about the lack of data in many papers about the energy intake. In some it went up with exercise, negating any possible calorie benefit.

The main point was there was no evidence base for using exercise to treat obesity, even if the only reason is that nobody has done a decent study properly.
  18022302
June 16, 2012 1:59 PM
bump
June 16, 2012 2:03 PM
QUOTE:

http://www.pbrc.edu/news/?ArticleID=150

" Despite dozens of controlled trials, the effects of exercise on the magnitude of produced weight loss remain uncertain. Many studies fail to show any significant weight loss. The basis for low weight loss in response to exercise remains unknown."


Just checked it out. The fact that they list "increase in food intake" as a "possible reason for not losing weight" suggests that they aren't really tightly controlling energy balance.

I think it's an interesting link. But I also think that the conclusions are silly.
June 16, 2012 2:09 PM
it's a review paper, so they are looking at what others have published. So when a paper doesn't say anything at all about the food intake they make a comment like that - ie we don't know what the food intake was so maybe that's why the weight increased.

Most of the exercise studies have only a small calorie deficit, which renders them statistically awkward. Diet ones tend to go for it with VLCDs and the like, so it is easier to see the effect with statistical significance.
  18022302
June 16, 2012 2:10 PM
Articles like these always remind me of the "Gastric Bypass" scenario, whereby patients have been physically restricted as to the amount of calories they can consume, and lose weight as a result.....some of them can exercise, some of them are physically unable to exercise.
June 16, 2012 2:34 PM
I think the conclusions are WAY exaggerated. I do believe that it's key to lower your calorie intake regardless of the cardio calorie burn you get. 1,000 calories burned in the gym doesn't seem to be as effective as 1,000 calories you don't eat.



For my weight loss journey (tracked for one year all calories and workouts)
- 1000 calorie reduction from food is good for weight/fat loss;
- 700 calorie reduction from food with a 300 cardio burn is a better weight/fat loss method;
- A 700 calorie reduction from food with a 300 cardio burn and some weight lifting is ideal for weight/fat loss.
- And having no diet change but having a 1,000 cal cardio burn wouldn't be as effective as any of the above 3 methods.

Plus the obvious benefit of cardio and strength training is not only reducing weight & fat but heart and body health!
  13298073
June 16, 2012 3:05 PM
QUOTE:


Donnelly et al. did a second trial that was published in 1993
showing that weight training COULD INCREASE MUSCLE SIZE
while women followed an 800 calorie per day diet, but it could not
increase weight or fat loss.

Adding 'calorie burning exercises' like cardio doesn't seem to
increase weight loss, but adding strength training can preserve or
even help increase the size of your muscles while you are dieting.



I'm curious about these statements. I've read countless threads of people wagging their fingers and spitting fire on how you cannot increase muscle mass while on a calorie deficit. But if 520/800 calories a day isn't a deficit i don't know what is... Are these studies right in saying that strength training while on a diet can still help increase muscle size????
Edited by Maxylicious On June 16, 2012 3:05 PM
June 16, 2012 3:56 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:


Donnelly et al. did a second trial that was published in 1993
showing that weight training COULD INCREASE MUSCLE SIZE
while women followed an 800 calorie per day diet, but it could not
increase weight or fat loss.

Adding 'calorie burning exercises' like cardio doesn't seem to
increase weight loss, but adding strength training can preserve or
even help increase the size of your muscles while you are dieting.



I'm curious about these statements. I've read countless threads of people wagging their fingers and spitting fire on how you cannot increase muscle mass while on a calorie deficit. But if 520/800 calories a day isn't a deficit i don't know what is... Are these studies right in saying that strength training while on a diet can still help increase muscle size????


Below is the abstract from the Donnelly 1993 study, as well as a link to the full research paper.

Abstract
The combined effects of exercise and energy restriction on changes in body fat and fat-free mass (FFM) are controversial. This study was conducted to determine whether muscle hypertrophy is possible during weight loss. Fourteen obese females received a 3360-kJ/d liquid diet for 90 d. Seven subjects received a weight training (WT) regimen and seven subjects remained sedentary (C). Biopsy samples were obtained from the vastus lateralis muscle at baseline and after 90 d of treatment. The average weight loss over the 90-d period was 16 kg with approximately 24% of the weight loss from FFM and 76% from fat. The amount and composition of the weight loss did not differ between WT and C groups. The cross-sectional area of slow twitch and fast twitch fibers was unchanged by treatment in C subjects but significantly increased in WT subjects. It appears that weight training can produce hypertrophy in skeletal muscle during severe energy restriction and large-scale weight loss.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/58/4/561.long
June 16, 2012 4:35 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:


Donnelly et al. did a second trial that was published in 1993
showing that weight training COULD INCREASE MUSCLE SIZE
while women followed an 800 calorie per day diet, but it could not
increase weight or fat loss.

Adding 'calorie burning exercises' like cardio doesn't seem to
increase weight loss, but adding strength training can preserve or
even help increase the size of your muscles while you are dieting.



I'm curious about these statements. I've read countless threads of people wagging their fingers and spitting fire on how you cannot increase muscle mass while on a calorie deficit. But if 520/800 calories a day isn't a deficit i don't know what is... Are these studies right in saying that strength training while on a diet can still help increase muscle size????

noob gains. first couple months of resistance training you can build muscle while in deficit. You plateau quickly and then normal rules apply.

Reply

Message Boards » General Diet and Weight Loss Help

Posts by members, moderators and admins should not be considered medical advice and no guarantee is made against accuracy.