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TOPIC: White Pasta, rice and bread are Complex Carbs

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March 30, 2012 5:31 PM
In my continual efforts to help rid dietary ignorance from these boards and help liberate individuals from dietary restrictions and false ideals of what constitues "healthy," I present you with complex carbs!

Yes, complex carbs. The heart and soul of "clean" (what a silly word!) eating. Advocated by all, understood by very few, the complex carb is the heart of your clean eater, assuring you that you must NEVER eat any simple carbs (or very few of it). You eat a simple carb (that people assume is always associated with white)? By golly, no wonder you're not losing fat!

Want the truth? Check out this awesome video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bG3KdzrquA

Too lazy to watch it? Here's the summary:

White bread, rice, and pasta are good sources of complex carbs. If it isn't a sugar then it isn't a simple carb. It's as simple as that. Carbs are broken down into three categories: monosaccharides (dextrose, fructose,galactose, and glucose), oligosaccharides (sucrose, lactose, and maltose), and polysaccharides (fiber, glycogen, resistant starch and starch).

Basically, if it is a polysaccharide then you're consuming a complex carb source. There are many pastas out there that are sugar-free and, as a result, contain no simple carbs. So, to simplify:
- Starch? Complex carb.
- No starch? Simple carb.
- White bread, rice and pasta are starches.
- Since they are starches, they are complex carbs.

Finally, please stop telling people to not eat white pasta or whatever. To finish off, here are a few quotes:

"Most of the dietary guidance to reduce levels of refined grain intake is based primarily on evidence supporting increased whole-grain consumption, rather than on particular concerns about risks associated with refined grains per se. The protective effects of whole grains are well established, and in order to promote increased consumption without exceeding total grain consumption recommendations, there has to be a consequent decrease in the amount of refined-grain foods consumed. However, this is difficult to achieve. Even in the best large-scale intervention trials, with high levels of education and support, e.g., the 18-month trial in New Zealand [137], compliance with increased whole-grain targets was relatively poor.

The totality of evidence shows that consumption of up to 50% of all grain foods as core refined-grain foods
(defined as foods based on refined grains without significant added fat, sugar, or sodium) is not associated with any increase in disease risk. Nonetheless, eating more whole-grain foods remains an important health recommendation, and most consumers will need to reduce their current consumption of refined grains to no more than one-third to one-half of all grains in order to meet the targets for whole-grain foods. It needs to be noted that this conclusion about refined grains only applies to core refined-grain cereal foods. In all communications with the public, the importance of limiting cereal-based foods that are high in added fat, sugar, and sodium still needs to be emphasized."

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...452.x/abstract

*Note: You see personal agenda at work by the last line. The point of this quote was to emphasize that even people with personal agendas will make it known that at least half of your intake from "refined" sources are fine.

Anthony Colpo on refined grains vs whole grains:

"I haven’t been able to find any actual clinical trials in real live humans showing superior outcomes in any meaningful health measure for whole grains when compared to refined grains. As I have written ad nauseum, all the clinical trials show either no difference or worse outcomes for whole grains. I’d hardly consider that to be a firm scientific basis for encouraging people to eat whole grains instead of refined!

The allegedly superior health outcomes associated with whole grains in epidemiological studies are just that: statistical associations. The relationship clearly is not causative; whole-grain eaters who show favourable health outcomes in epidemiological observations are evidently doing so in spite of their diet, not because of it. This may well be because those who are motivated to eat whole grains are more likely to exhibit an array of other healthy behaviours and characteristics (higher activity, non-smoking, etc)."
http://anthonycolpo.com/?p=3018

I'll continue eating my diverse range of foods while some of you continually recommend the restriction of what some other people simply prefer. FYI, I'm not anti-whole grains. I love them and they fit perfectly with specific foods (rye bread with a reuben anyone?).

The moral to this story? Stop trying to restrict yourself to things you hate and focus on the real things that matter when you lose fat: accurate intake of calories and macronutrients. You aren't losing weight? Eat less calories and ensure you are properly counting your calories (WEIGH YOUR FOOD!). Simple.

P.S. This does not mean don't eat vegetables and fruits. This doesn't mean only eat McDonald's or toaster strudels. Be reasonable and logical. Practice moderation.
March 30, 2012 5:34 PM
Bump. A controversial topic = a potential sh!tstorm that I don't want to miss drinker
March 30, 2012 5:37 PM
finally!!
March 30, 2012 5:40 PM
QUOTE:

Bump. A controversial topic = a potential sh!tstorm that I don't want to miss drinker


In the words of Winston Churchill, "The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."
March 30, 2012 5:52 PM
I didn't watch the video. Does it talk about the benefits of the extra fiber in whole grains and their slower digestion and thus not raising your blood sugar as much as more refined grains?
  14718047
March 30, 2012 6:10 PM
QUOTE:

I didn't watch the video. Does it talk about the benefits of the extra fiber in whole grains and their slower digestion and thus not raising your blood sugar as much as more refined grains?


Those things tend to be fairly moot in the grand scheme of things. If you note Colpo's quote I provided, he hasn't found any evidence that have shown whole grains are superior when you look at the whole picture. For example, you're mentioning fibre and slower digestion in a small context of just the bread itself but not in the context of an entire, variant diet which includes many other foods and nutrients. When you look at the big picture, it makes very little difference assuming that your diet isn't completely idiotic.

More people do need fibre, I don't disagree. My point wasn't that you should only eat refined grains or you should only eat whole grains. Rather, be reasonable and don't worry about eating that burger on white bun or that bucatini all'amatriciana made with white pasta.

I still eat whole grains but I still eat refined grains. The former isn't necessarily better for health or fat loss and the latter isn't the devil as some make it out to be.
March 30, 2012 6:11 PM
Interesting! and thank you! I eat wholegrains most days but I love my white bread and pasta too, in moderation of course. Glad to know it's one of the "good" carbs!
Edited by coconutbuNZ On March 30, 2012 6:12 PM
March 30, 2012 6:32 PM
agreed, if i could add that its all about if you're meeting your macronutrient/micronutrient intake. There is no such thing as "clean" or dirty, your body does not know the difference between an apple or white bread it all gets converted into glucose. I'd rather have people use the term "flexible dieting". If you understand the amount of fats,protein,carbs you need to maintain, lose, gain then essentially you can eat whatever you wish.
March 30, 2012 6:42 PM
I dub this my favorite thread of the week!
  261869
March 30, 2012 6:44 PM
But Wheat Belly told me white bread was worse than a Snickers bar, I'm confuzzled
March 30, 2012 7:00 PM
one can always find evidence or opinion to support their beliefs.....I stay away from processed (especially bleached or highly processed) foods and white bread and pasta are certainly that.
March 30, 2012 7:06 PM
I'm not sure why you'd eat empty calories trying to lose weight. Surely nutrient density plays a factor in food choices.
March 30, 2012 7:20 PM
QUOTE:
one can always find evidence or opinion to support their beliefs.....I stay away from processed (especially bleached or highly processed) foods and white bread and pasta are certainly that.


You're missing the point. I'm advocating freedom, not restriction. There is no particularly convincing evidence to support that a diet that is 50/50 whole grains and refined grains vs. 100/0 whole grains to refined grains is worse.

Furthermore, I'm trying to explain to people that just because it is a complex carbohydrate doesn't mean it's any better. People assume that whole grain = complex but refined = simple when this simply isn't true.

People fear foods but there's nothing to fear. Eating white bread won't kill you. Yes, it lacks nutritional quality but, within moderation, it makes no difference than eating whole grains.

QUOTE:

I'm not sure why you'd eat empty calories trying to lose weight. Surely nutrient density plays a factor in food choices.


In the context of a fairly diverse diet, it's not a big deal to eat refined grains. Yes, they lack nutritional quality but it tastes great! If I'm eating 6-8 servings of vegetables and fruits a day and have yet to met my carbohydrate requirement, do you think my health will be negatively effected by eating burgers on white buns? No, it won't make a difference.

QUOTE:

But Wheat Belly told me white bread was worse than a Snickers bar, I'm confuzzled


Omfgbbqsauce!11!!11exclamationoneoneoneone

Quickly! To the bomb shelter!
Edited by AeolianHarp On March 30, 2012 7:21 PM
March 30, 2012 7:23 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:
one can always find evidence or opinion to support their beliefs.....I stay away from processed (especially bleached or highly processed) foods and white bread and pasta are certainly that.


You're missing the point. I'm advocating freedom, not restriction. There is no particularly convincing evidence to support that a diet that is 50/50 whole grains and refined grains vs. 100/0 whole grains to refined grains is worse.

Furthermore, I'm trying to explain to people that just because it is a complex carbohydrate doesn't mean it's any better. People assume that whole grain = complex but refined = simple when this simply isn't true.

People fear foods but there's nothing to fear. Eating white bread won't kill you. Yes, it lacks nutritional quality but, within moderation, it makes no difference than eating whole grains.


QUOTE:

I'm not sure why you'd eat empty calories trying to lose weight. Surely nutrient density plays a factor in food choices.


You're missing the point. In the context of a fairly diverse diet, it's not a big deal to eat refined grains. Yes, they lack nutritional quality but it tastes great! If I'm eating 6-8 servings of vegetables and fruits a day and have yet to met my carbohydrate requirement, do you think my health will be negatively effected by eating burgers on white buns? No, it won't make a difference.

QUOTE:

But Wheat Belly told me white bread was worse than a Snickers bar, I'm confuzzled


Omfgbbqsauce!11!!11exclamationoneoneoneone

Quickly! To the bomb shelter!


Harp Thank you, thank you and thank you again! Like you said, everything in moderation and who wants to eat their hamburger on a piece of wholegrain bread, not me!
Edited by coconutbuNZ On March 30, 2012 7:24 PM
March 30, 2012 7:26 PM
If you look at the nutritional value on whole grain vs. white products, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that nutrition does go down with white pasta, etc. For example, in comparing the boxes of white vs. whole grain pasta I have here in the house, the whole grain pasta has 5 more grams of fibre than the white. I choose fibre. I actually prefer the taste too.
  12800241
March 30, 2012 7:36 PM
QUOTE:


Harp Thank you, thank you and thank you again! Like you said, everything in moderation and who wants to eat their hamburger on a piece of wholegrain bread, not me!


I got some nice grass fed beef hamburgers (supposedly taste better? couldn't tell) and threw them on some ezekiel bread. Have to say was a pretty bad experience.

QUOTE:

In the context of a fairly diverse diet, it's not a big deal to eat refined grains. Yes, they lack nutritional quality but it tastes great! If I'm eating 6-8 servings of vegetables and fruits a day and have yet to met my carbohydrate requirement, do you think my health will be negatively effected by eating burgers on white buns? No, it won't make a difference.


I make horrible food choices. I'm not saying eating them is a bad choice, maybe just not the best choice.
March 30, 2012 8:02 PM
QUOTE:

If you look at the nutritional value on whole grain vs. white products, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that nutrition does go down with white pasta, etc. For example, in comparing the boxes of white vs. whole grain pasta I have here in the house, the whole grain pasta has 5 more grams of fibre than the white. I choose fibre. I actually prefer the taste too.


Power to you! You're choosing what you like. Some people aren't like that, though. Also, sometimes I don't mind only eating 10g of fibre in a day for the sake of eating something I enjoy. I can always go back to my 25g another day. I'm a fan of looking at the bigger picture.

QUOTE:
I make horrible food choices. I'm not saying eating them is a bad choice, maybe just not the best choice.


Don't we all? ;) There are always better choices. Why eat that entremet? or coq au vin? Sometimes we eat certain things that aren't necessarily perfectly at the time but, in the end, it's the bigger picture that matters. It matters what happens across the week, in that month, across the year and the time after that. People take one day too harshly. There are people on here who weep and punish themselves for indulging in a single day or going off their extremely restrictive diets and consume, god forbid, white bread.

There's life after losing weight and that life is a lot more calories than most people know what to do with. Once I go back to maintenance, I'll have around 300g of carbs to play with. People just need to realize that white ain't that bad and it's really your diet over a period of time that matters.
Edited by AeolianHarp On March 30, 2012 8:02 PM
March 31, 2012 9:16 AM
Just to be obnoxious and argumentative.....for me white starches usually mean death....as in if I eat them I will be in pain and on the toilet for hours wanting to kill myself or wishing I was dead....celiac isn't fun LOL but yeah people thing whole grain means better. It all just turns to sugar. I just don't eat any of it.
  17987792
March 31, 2012 9:44 AM
QUOTE:

Just to be obnoxious and argumentative.....for me white starches usually mean death....as in if I eat them I will be in pain and on the toilet for hours wanting to kill myself or wishing I was dead....celiac isn't fun LOL but yeah people thing whole grain means better. It all just turns to sugar. I just don't eat any of it.


See, you're the exception. You actually can't eat it but there are people who act like they do have celiac when it comes to white-orientated foods.
March 31, 2012 10:57 AM
It seems to be a common trait to believe that if something is perceived to be better than what it 'supersedes' then that which it 'supersedes' becomes inevitably harmful or at best worthless.

The certainty of naivety prevails. Did someone mention potatoes !.
March 31, 2012 11:12 AM
White bread or whole grain bread they are all refined (yes white bread more than whole but given the fact it's bread its refined.) The truth is that as a society we eat too many refined foods. IMHO the obesity epidemic gets worse and worse due to the fact we eat entirely too much refined foods. The raise your insulin level which in turn raises your hunger levels. Are you going to fall over dead if you eat white bread? No, everything in moderation. But the truth is there are lots of people eat their poptart/toast/muffin for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch, and pasta for dinner, and can easily be under their calorie count and are having problems losing weight. Its because of too much refined foods, your body floods your system with insulin and in turn your hunger levels increases.
  9633342
March 31, 2012 12:06 PM
To my knowledge the real difference between refined and unrefined (or less refined) is the fiber content, which is significantly greater in the unrefined, which does make a significant difference due to blood sugar regulation.

If you have someone who is eating a ton of sugary foods, with no regards to calorie intake then eating a whole wheat bun with a 2000 calorie meal isn't going to make a lick of difference.

If you are very cognizant of your diet and sugar intake and are in relatively decent health then eating 'white' foods probably isn't going to make a difference.

BUT (and it's a big but) the blood sugar issue is a real issue that effects a lot of people.

If you are having issues with blood sugar control or have a hard time being satiated by your meals, then it may be in your interests to try less refined foods.

Since this is a forum (mainly) dedicated to losing weight then I think that it is pretty safe to say that there are many many people on this message board who are struggling with the above issues. And every little bit helps.
Edited by DocGu On March 31, 2012 12:11 PM
March 31, 2012 12:17 PM
QUOTE:

To my knowledge the real difference between refined and unrefined (or less refined) is the fiber content, which is significantly greater in the unrefined, which does make a significant difference due to blood sugar regulation.

If you have someone who is eating a ton of sugary foods, with no regards to calorie intake then eating a whole wheat bun with a 2000 calorie meal isn't going to make a lick of difference.

If you are very cognizant of your diet and sugar intake and are in relatively decent health then eating 'white' foods probably isn't going to make a difference.

BUT (and it's a big but) the blood sugar issue is a real issue that effects a lot of people.

If you are having issues with blood sugar control or have a hard time being satiated by your meals, then it may be in your interests to try less refined foods.

Since this is a forum (mainly) dedicated to losing weight then I think that it is pretty safe to say that there are many many people on this message board who are struggling with the above issues. And every little bit helps.
Actually white and whole wheat pasta are both a low GI and the difference the extra fiber makes in the whole is minimal....a few points on the GI scale. Even though whole flour is used it's still ground down enough top make a pasta, which renders the particles very very small and not the same thing as whole bread where you see actual whole grain, and that's why the difference is minimal. Low GI is good for blood sugar control and both white or whole wheat make little difference.
March 31, 2012 12:18 PM
QUOTE:

To my knowledge the real difference between refined and unrefined (or less refined) is the fiber content, which is significantly greater in the unrefined, which does make a significant difference due to blood sugar regulation.

If you have someone who is eating a ton of sugary foods, with no regards to calorie intake then eating a whole wheat bun with a 2000 calorie meal isn't going to make a lick of difference.

If you are very cognizant of your diet and sugar intake and are in relatively decent health then eating 'white' foods probably isn't going to make a difference.

BUT (and it's a big but) the blood sugar issue is a real issue that effects a lot of people.

If you are having issues with blood sugar control or have a hard time being satiated by your meals, then it may be in your interests to try less refined foods.

Since this is a forum (mainly) dedicated to losing weight then I think that it is pretty safe to say that there are many many people on this message board who are struggling with the above issues. And every little bit helps.


Good post. Since I follow South Beach guidelines I try to keep my blood sugar levels even throughout the day and prefer not to let them fluctuate by eating highly refined carbs.
  14718047
March 31, 2012 1:06 PM
QUOTE:

White bread or whole grain bread they are all refined (yes white bread more than whole but given the fact it's bread its refined.) The truth is that as a society we eat too many refined foods. IMHO the obesity epidemic gets worse and worse due to the fact we eat entirely too much refined foods. The raise your insulin level which in turn raises your hunger levels. Are you going to fall over dead if you eat white bread? No, everything in moderation. But the truth is there are lots of people eat their poptart/toast/muffin for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch, and pasta for dinner, and can easily be under their calorie count and are having problems losing weight. Its because of too much refined foods, your body floods your system with insulin and in turn your hunger levels increases.

I must be the exception to your truths, then, because I have oatmeal for breakfast, bread for lunch, croutons on my salad in the afternoon, pasta/rice/potatoes (varies) for dinner, and either Cheerios or popcorn for an evening snack, and as long as my calorie count is in check, my weight is as well.
  261869

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