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TOPIC: How do you put your body in ketosis mode

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March 5, 2009 7:04 AM
i have heard that if you can put your body in to the ketosis mode you can drop pounds fast, does anyone know anything about this and how to get your self to that stage?
March 5, 2009 7:12 AM
this doesn't seem very healthy, here's a link about it you can copy and paste into the address bar for more info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis
  89674
March 5, 2009 7:14 AM
well, I'll tell you. But I'll also tell you that it's a HIGHLY controversial topic and most doctors and research scientists don't believe it to be a safe, effective means to healthy weight loss.
(fyi, this is kind of asking an alcoholic what the best way of getting drunk is). Generally, MFP promotes healthy weight loss, and this isn't considered by most to be healthy.


Ketosis is achieved by eating higher amounts of fats and protein and severely limiting your carbohydrate intake. This can have potentially dangerous consequenses on your liver and kidneys though.

see the wiki on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis
March 5, 2009 7:14 AM
I used to do the atkins plan, and basically what you do is cut out all carbs. this is hard on the kidneys but you will loose weight. You should also drink extra water to help flush the kidneys if you are doing this.
However when you go back to eating carbs it comes back and then some. At least that was my experience.
March 5, 2009 7:15 AM
That is the Atkins Diet Plan. It's cutting out carbs from your diet. All pasta, breads, any kind of grain, most vegetables. Ketosis mode is hard on your liver. So you have to be careful. Once you lose your desired weight you can add carbs slowly back into your diet... and the cards are vegetables. Dropping weight quickly isn't the solution because THE POUNDS COME BACK AS QUICK AS THEY CAME OFF. Every Doctor and Nutritionist have said cutting one of the food groups out of your diet is one of the worse things you can do.
Eat a healthy diet of fruits, veggies, 3-4 ounces of lean meats.meal, 8 glasses of water a day, exercise at least 4x a week and don't forget your vitamins. You'll be on your way to a healthy life style that can last for ever. flowerforyou
  122633
March 5, 2009 7:15 AM
The Atkins diet will do it, if you cut your carbs down to almost nothing. My doctor has told me that it isn't safe though because it can damage your heart.
  145432
March 5, 2009 7:19 AM
QUOTE:

i have heard that if you can put your body in to the ketosis mode you can drop pounds fast, does anyone know anything about this and how to get your self to that stage?


I agree with the rest its not really safe however you could try just limiting things like bread ,rice and pasta ..I find I get all my carbs elsewhere and didnt need them to come from those foods.....bigsmile
  136054
March 5, 2009 7:20 AM
correction That is NOT the Atkins diet. I have a severely epileptic nephew who has to live on this diet. If his Ketones get too low or high he has seizures- I'm talking about 100s everyday. The foods he eats are not at all the same as Atkins. It's all about controlling the ketones with fats from very specific foods in very specific amounts. In a typical day he drink 5-6 cups of no carb cream (which is $$$$), 2oz cubed ham, 1 cup strawberries, he can have broccoli, sometimes chicken. Everything is sauteed in lots of butter and cream. it is NOT the kind of diet you want to take on for weight loss, trust me. It is very very expensive and very very specific. I hope Songbyrd chimes in, she knows a lot more about it than I do.

also contrary to what most are saying, if done properly it actually is safe. but it would be REALLY difficult to do it properly, and it would take a LOT of reseach.
  49255
March 5, 2009 7:32 AM
Isn't Ketosis triggered by limiting carbs? When the glycogen has been depleted, Ketosis starts. This is the theory behind Atkins. I tried Atkins a few years ago. It lasted only 3 days. With the lack of carbs for fuel, I completely and utterly BONKED! No energy, felt wasted, fatigued like I had the flu. Not a good thing. I learned my lesson well. This site gives you the tools to do it right. It may not give you fast weight loss, but is by far the healthiest way to go. Actually, forget about weight, think good health. After all, isn't that what we need most?


To myastyme:

I just looked at your ticker. Amazing! 50 lbs in 2 months. WOW! Great work!
March 5, 2009 7:36 AM
Please do not send your body in ketosis. It's done by severely limiting your carb intake such as on Atkins. I believe you can't have more that 20 grams of carbs per day or something, which is not realistic. As recommended by nutritionists, about 45-65% of your daily caloric intake should be from carbs. Your body eventually goes into starvation mode because it uses the sugars from carbs for energy. Your brain is a selfish bugger and it's preferred energy source is carbohydrates only, which is why people on Atkins feel especially sluggish when they start it. Because your body doesn't have enough carbs, it starts to break down your muscle and fat tissue. You liver produces ketone bodies out of it (hence the ketosis). It's the only other thing that your brain can use as energy and it's a last resort kinda thing. A lot of ketones in your system causes some bad side effects. It messes with the acid/base balance of your blood so your body compensates by increasing your heart rate and breathing rate. A by-product of this is acetone, which you will be able to smell on your breath because there's no other way to get rid of it, it ends up being a sweet/fruity smell. Acetone by the way is what give nail polish remover that potent smell. I also had a friend's dad do the Atkin's thing once and he ended up having bad kidney stones because of it. Not too pleasant!

Sending your body into ketosis will screw up your metabolism. Once you go off of this plan, your metabolism is still in starvation mode, so the carbs you begin to feed it get packed away as storage, meaning more pounds. I was told in class that by restricting your carb intake like this, you eventually decrease your muscle mass and increase your body fat percentage. The general rule for getting healthier is just the opposite.

I promise that by making healthier food choices and restricting your calories reasonably, along with exercising will do it for you. Having more muscle mass increases your metabolism in a good way and is the way that your body was made to work. It will take longer, but it is sooooo much better for you. I hope this helps and I didn't send you into information overload!!! I just really feel strongly about not going this route for weight loss.
I wish you the best of luck!smile
March 5, 2009 7:37 AM
QUOTE:

I tried Atkins a few years ago. It lasted only 3 days. With the lack of carbs for fuel, I completely and utterly BONKED! No energy, felt wasted, fatigued like I had the flu. Not a good thing. I learned my lesson well. This site gives you the tools to do it right. It may not give you fast weight loss, but is by far the healthiest way to go. Actually, forget about weight, think good health. After all, isn't that what we need most?



you probably felt that way because you weren't taking in enough energy. Carbs are your body's main energy source, when you limit or eliminate it, you have to make up for it with fat, which is the basis for a ketonic diet (which I repeat is NOT the same as Atkins). As I said, a ketonic diet is high in cream, butter and meats with very few fruits and veggies and absolutely no grains. The Atkins diet isn't like that, Atkins allows for a wide variety of vegetable and some fruite is I'm not mistaken, and i doesn't up the fats as emphatically as a ketonic diet does.
  49255
March 5, 2009 7:44 AM
I was eating plenty, not enough carbs. Ketosis cannot happen in an environment rich in carbs. Call it what you like, Atkins or not, Ketosis and Atkins are the same thing.
March 5, 2009 7:51 AM
QUOTE:

I was eating plenty, not enough carbs. Ketosis cannot happen in an environment rich in carbs. Call it what you like, Atkins or not, Ketosis and Atkins are the same thing.

I never said you weren't eating enough. I said you weren't getting enough ENERGY. different. if y cut carbs, you have to replace them with fats. if you don't, you have no energy.
  49255
March 5, 2009 7:51 AM
There has actually been a good deal of research on chronically high-fat, low-carbohydrate diets and exercise performance. Some studies conclude an improvement in performance, some studies conclude no change, some studies conclude a decrease in performance. Go figure. wink In general, ketogenic diets can support endurance performance, but not explosive performance. Of course that varies because it's impossible to totally control a study using human participants.

Ketosis occurs not from a high-protein/fat diet, but in the absence of dietary carbohydrates AND the subsequent depletion of stored glucose, or glycogen. About 2,000 calories worth of glycogen is stored in the liver and muscles, and once it's all used for energy, our body changes things a little bit. It still makes glucose from certain amino acids (which make up protein), glycerol (which is a part of fat) and by products of energy production. It makes enough glucose to keep blood sugar levels normal and provide the brain with sufficient glucose. It also starts to produce ketones from fatty acids and some other types of amino acids. Ketones are used in only one energy system, the Krebs Cycle, which uses fatty acids to produce energy when we have enough oxygen present (which is pretty much all the time unless we're doing something explosive, like sprinting).

Ketones are acids, and so are amino acids. So it stands to reason that, if you assume protein can damage kidneys, so can ketones. Well, the jury's still out on that.. Yes, excessive protein consumption can cause damage, but studies of up to 2.5g per lb of body weight have shown normal renal filtration and no damage. In non-diabetic individuals, ketones are simply filtered in the kidneys and excreted with the urine. They don't build up to toxic levels because our bodies still recognize the glucose present in the blood stream and won't drastically over-produce the ketones.

However, that's not the case with diabetics. Since their cells can't take in glucose effectively, they keep sending out signals that they need energy, and ketones are produced in huge excess amounts. Left untreated, they can change the blood pH, and then organ damage occurs.

As you deplete your glycogen stores, you'll experience a large weight loss. That's not fat, though. It's simple the glycogen and the 3 g of water that binds to every 6 of glycogen. That can add up to about 4 lbs, not including any excess water you may be holding due to sodium, etc. Once you start eating carbohydrates again, you'll experience a weight gain, which, once again, won't be fat.

BTW, it's not acetone, but acetate. Similar but not the same thing.
  312
March 5, 2009 8:03 AM
"drop pounds fast" has always been something that i've tried not to buy into personally. i know it's easy to get impatient (i know i'm starting to be that way with my plateau), but i definitely think it's worthwhile to invest in something that is healthy, stays off and isn't a quick fix. i've tried many different things and i'm finally successful now and i feel the fittest i've ever been! someone once told me the amount of time it took me to gain that weight is around the same amount of time it'll take me to lose it--boy was he ever right!

i have a few friends who tried the atkins diet (ketosis mode) and they ended up gaining twice the amount of weight they lost!

on mfp, i fell off the wagon a few days every couple of weeks because of christmas parties, new year's, etc.. but i found that i never gained any weight from doing that--it stays off well for me! if i were on a "diet" i'm sure i would've gained at least 5 lbs given the amount and type of food i was eating!

so yea, i encourage you or whoever is considering this to try the patient, slow but healthy way... you won't regret it!

all the best!
March 5, 2009 9:07 AM
Protein IS energy also. You do not need to have all fat in your diet. Yes, it is easier to get your cals (energy) from fats, but your body will accept either. The point is that only by cutting carbs and depleting the glycogen stores can a person enter a state of Ketosis. Please see sonbyrdsweets great post on this.
March 5, 2009 9:20 AM
QUOTE:

There has actually been a good deal of research on chronically high-fat, low-carbohydrate diets and exercise performance. Some studies conclude an improvement in performance, some studies conclude no change, some studies conclude a decrease in performance. Go figure. wink In general, ketogenic diets can support endurance performance, but not explosive performance. Of course that varies because it's impossible to totally control a study using human participants.

Ketosis occurs not from a high-protein/fat diet, but in the absence of dietary carbohydrates AND the subsequent depletion of stored glucose, or glycogen. About 2,000 calories worth of glycogen is stored in the liver and muscles, and once it's all used for energy, our body changes things a little bit. It still makes glucose from certain amino acids (which make up protein), glycerol (which is a part of fat) and by products of energy production. It makes enough glucose to keep blood sugar levels normal and provide the brain with sufficient glucose. It also starts to produce ketones from fatty acids and some other types of amino acids. Ketones are used in only one energy system, the Krebs Cycle, which uses fatty acids to produce energy when we have enough oxygen present (which is pretty much all the time unless we're doing something explosive, like sprinting).

Ketones are acids, and so are amino acids. So it stands to reason that, if you assume protein can damage kidneys, so can ketones. Well, the jury's still out on that.. Yes, excessive protein consumption can cause damage, but studies of up to 2.5g per lb of body weight have shown normal renal filtration and no damage. In non-diabetic individuals, ketones are simply filtered in the kidneys and excreted with the urine. They don't build up to toxic levels because our bodies still recognize the glucose present in the blood stream and won't drastically over-produce the ketones.

However, that's not the case with diabetics. Since their cells can't take in glucose effectively, they keep sending out signals that they need energy, and ketones are produced in huge excess amounts. Left untreated, they can change the blood pH, and then organ damage occurs.

As you deplete your glycogen stores, you'll experience a large weight loss. That's not fat, though. It's simple the glycogen and the 3 g of water that binds to every 6 of glycogen. That can add up to about 4 lbs, not including any excess water you may be holding due to sodium, etc. Once you start eating carbohydrates again, you'll experience a weight gain, which, once again, won't be fat.

BTW, it's not acetone, but acetate. Similar but not the same thing.




laugh laugh Acetone is what I used to remove the paint from my ex boyfriends' new beamer many moons ago, big dif between acetone and acetate...lol, just struck me as a funy word mixup, acetone is basically nail polish remover, in high concentrations, it's an awesome paint stripper in no time at all!
March 5, 2009 9:37 AM
There are more moderate versions of the low carb, high protein diet than Atkins, such as the Protein Power Plan. if you google on Protein power, you will likely find the website. In this plan, you count effective carbs, meaning the carbs that are not fiberous. So, if you have a slice of bread with 17 g carbs, but it also has 3 g of fiber, your effective carb count is 14.

Having said that, if one severely limits the carbs, it is CRITICAL ,CRITICAL, CRITICAL to drink a boatload of water, or you can and will do damage to kidneys and perhaps liver. This type of diet is often regarded by mainstream health care practitioners a unsafe. However, we need to ask ourselves if there is a corelation between the rise in some illnesses (Type II diabetes, high cholesterol, heart disease, obesity, etc.) and the advent 30 years ago of extreme low fat eating. Prior to 1970, the plethora of high carb, low protein (and already prepared) foods were not as readily available. A growing number of bariatric physicians are determining that diets high in carbs and extremely low in fat are not a realistic way to combat obesity. Look for the writings of Drs. Michael and Mary Dan Eades.
  153005
March 5, 2009 9:39 AM
Songbyrd, I LOVE reading your posts, I feel like I've been to advanced biology, only this time, I got it! Thanks!
  153005
March 5, 2009 9:44 AM
yOU CAN BUY STRIPS AT THE PHARMACY TO CHECK TO SEE IF YOU ARE IN KETOSIS. i AM ON MY FOURTH DAY OF "ATKINS" AND I AM IN KETOSIS ALREADY. AND I EAT LOTS OF SALAD AND GREEN VEGGIES. I'VE ALREADY LOST 4LBS. I SUGGEST GETTING THE BOOK THOUGH, THERE IS ALOT TO ADDING CARBS TO YOUR DIET TO CONTINUE LOSING, AND MAINTAINING YOUR WEIGHT. GOOD LUCK!
March 5, 2009 10:14 AM
QUOTE:

Songbyrd, I LOVE reading your posts, I feel like I've been to advanced biology, only this time, I got it! Thanks!


Thanks! flowerforyou I'm glad you enjoy them. I love to write about this stuff. I am planning on looking into ketosis more as a graduate. If I can come up with something really specific to look at, I'd have a thesis! bigsmile

I do agree that the super low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets set us up for health problems. It's not that the ADA was out to get us all hooked on prescriptions. They wanted to put out a simple, understandable plan to help people stay healthy. However, when you oversimplify something too much, you lose sight of any detail and people lose direction. Instead of saying 'whole grains are good and too much of some fats are bad,', they just said, 'grains are good and fat is bad.' And that was the food pyramid. There was no mention of exercise, no differentiation between better or worse carbs or fats, just a blanket statement that everyone could 'get'. Now it's not that we've really learned a ton more about what's good for us, it's just that the ADA is finally saying...Okay...we messed up....here's what the food pyramid SHOULD have said. And now we have things like the Activity Pyramid, or the new Food Pyramid that includes exercise and more specific direction. Now we have direction--whole grains, moderate fats, exercise daily. smile
  312
March 5, 2009 10:21 AM
I am looking forward to reading your thesis! happy
  153005
March 5, 2009 11:22 AM
You should ask these people your keto questions, they all use the diet and know the methods + there's recipes and such: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=61
March 5, 2009 1:24 PM
For everyone that says that Atkins is harmful to your health, you are sadly wrong and mistaken..........

I am almost COMPLETELY off my diabetes medications and my husband IS COMPLETELY OFF High Blood Pressure Medications.............both by doing Atkins and exercising.............

Atkins is a healthy way to lose weight and make a lifestyle change..........................

I eat the following vegetables and fruits:

Vegetables:

You should be eating approximately 12 to 15 grams of net carbs per day in the form of vegetables, which is equivalent to several cups depending on the actual carb content of the veggies you select.

1 cup is roughly the size of a baseball. Measure the following salad vegetables raw.

Vegetable Serving Size/Prep grams of net carbs
Alfalfa sprouts 1 cup/raw 0.4
Argula ½ cup/raw 0.2
Bok choy 1 cup/raw 0.8
Celery 1 stalk 0.8
Chicory greens ½ cup/raw 0.6
Chives 1 tablespoon 0.1
Cucumber ½ cup 1.0
Daikon ½ cup 1.0
Endive ½ cup 0.0
Escarole ½ cup 0.0
Fennel 1 cup 3.6
Jicama ½ cup 2.5
Iceberg lettuce
½ cup 0.1
Mushrooms ½ cup 1.2
Parsley 1 tablespoon 0.1
Peppers ½ cup/raw 2.3
Radicchio ½ cup/raw 0.7
Radishes 10/raw 0.9
Romaine lettuce ½ cup 0.2



The following vegetables are slightly higher in carbs than the salad vegetables listed above. They also provide important nutrients and add variety to your daily foods. Make sure you stay within the 12-15 grams of net carbs. Unless otherwise noted, measure these veggies after you cook them.

Vegetable Serving Size/ Prep Net Carbs
Artichoke ¼ of medium 4.0
Asparagus 6 spears 2.4
Artichoke hearts 1 canned
1.0
Avocadoes 1 whole (raw) 3.5
Bamboo shoots 1 cup canned
1.1
Broccoli
½ cup 1.6
Broccoli raw ½ cup 1.0
Broccoli rabe ½ cup 1.3
Broccoflower ½ cup 1.4
Brussels sprouts ¼ cup
2.4
Cabbage ½ cup (raw) 2.0
Cauliflower ½ cup (raw) 1.0
Swiss chard ½ cup
1.8
Collard greens ½ cup
4.2
Eggplant ½ cup
1.8
Hearts of palm 1 heart 0.7
Kale ½ cup 2.4
Kohlrabi ½ cup 4.6
Leeks ¼ cup
1.7
Okra ½ cup
2.4
Olives green 5 2.5
Olives black 5 0.7
Onion ¼ cup (raw) 2.8
Pumpkin ¼ cup
2.4
Rhubarb ½ cup (unsweetened) 1.7
Sauerkraut ½ cup (drained) 1.2
Peas ½ cup with pods 3.4
Spaghetti squash ½ cup
2.0
Spinach ½ cup (raw) 0.2
Summer squash ½ cup
2.0
Tomato 1 (raw) 4.3
Turnips ½ cup
2.2
Water chestnuts ½ cup (canned) 6.9
Zucchini ½ cup
2.0


Salad Garnishes
Crumbled bacon 3 slices 0.0
Hard-boiled egg 1 egg 0.0
Grated cheeses (see above carb counts)
Sautéed mushrooms ½ cup 1.0
Sour cream 2 tbs 1.2


Herbs and Spices (make sure they contain no added sugar)

Basil 1 tbs 0.0
Cayenne pepper 1 tbs 0.0
Cilantro 1 tbs 0.0
Dill 1 tbs 0.0
Garlic 1 clove 0.9
Ginger 1 tbs sliced root 0.8
Oregano 1 tbs 0.0
Pepper 1 tbs 0.0
Rosemary 1 tbs 0.0
Sage 1 tbs 0.0
Tarragon 1 tbs 0.0


Salad Dressings - Any prepared salad dressing with no added sugar and no more then 2 grams of net carbs per serving (1-2 tablespoons) is acceptable. Or make your own.


Blue cheese 2 tbs 2.3
Caesar 2 tbs 0.5
Italian 2 tbs 3.0
Lemon juice 2 tbs 2.8
Oil and vinegar 2 tbs 1.0
Ranch 2 tbs 1.4

The Power of FiveIn the recommended portions, these foods each contain roughly 5 grams of Net Carbs (total carbs minus fiber).

Dairy Serving Size Net Carbs
Cottage cheese 1% ¾ cup 4.7
Heavy cream ¾ cup 4.8
Mozzarella cheese 5 ounces 3.0
Ricotta cheese ¾ cup 5.7
Ricotta cheese ¾ cup 5.7

Nuts and Seeds Serving Size Net Carbs
Almonds 30 nuts 5.2
Brazil nuts 10 nuts 4.0
Cashews 9 nuts 4.4
Hulled sunflower seeds 6 tablespoons 5.0
Macadamias 12 nuts 4.0
Pecans 10 halves 3.0
Pistachios 50 nuts 5.0
Walnuts 14 nuts 5.0

Fruits Serving Size Net Carbs
Blueberries (fresh) ¼ cup 5.1
Cantaloupe or honeydew ¼ cup 3.5
Raspberries (fresh) ¼ cup 3.6
Strawberries (fresh) ¼ cup 2.6

Juices Serving Size Net Carbs
Lemon juice ¼ cup 5.2
Lime juice ¼ cup 5.6
Tomato juice ¼ cup 4.9

Plus I eat what ever protein I want..................

So, this looks like pretty CLEAN EATING TO ME............... drinker drinker
  117920
March 5, 2009 1:27 PM
QUOTE:

I was eating plenty, not enough carbs. Ketosis cannot happen in an environment rich in carbs. Call it what you like, Atkins or not, Ketosis and Atkins are the same thing.


ketosis is not Atkins..........and vice versa.

There are many different Ketogenic plans out there.....................

You don't need carbs for energy............I have much more energy than when I was on the Standard American Diet............

And, I eat much more clean.
  117920

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