Message Boards » Food and Nutrition

TOPIC: Protein Powder: casein and whey BLEND

 
November 24, 2011 8:04 AM
Does anyone use a whey and casein blend protein powder?

My previous protein powder was just whey but a sale price got me looking at Dymatize’s Elite Gourmet which is both. A little googling revealed that casein takes longer to be absorbed compared to whey which means it will keep you fuller longer. Milk is 80% casein protein and 20% whey, FYI.

Casein however is higher in carbs, 6g so my first instinct is that these types of protein powers are not good since it should be as close to 80% protein as possible and 21g of protein in a 33g scoop is only 64%.

Personally I like using my whey protein as a meal replacement (lunch) due to time constraints if that makes any difference in your suggestion.

What has been your experience?
  1100181
November 24, 2011 8:13 AM
QUOTE:



Casein however is higher in carbs, 6g so my first instinct is that these types of protein powers are not good since it should be as close to 80% protein as possible and 21g of protein in a 33g scoop is only 64%.



What about 6g carbs makes this not good? Are you trying to limit carb intake? Just trying to understand the above.
November 24, 2011 8:14 AM
Personally I would stick with the Whey, you get a quicker absorption rate. The only time I use a Casein protein is at night before bed since it digests slower. There are some schools of thought that we can't digest over 10g or so at a time unless your body needs it. Like after a good strength training workout.

Good article here
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/protein-types-best-for-you.htm
  5895598
November 24, 2011 8:15 AM
Generally speaking you would use the whey protein during the day and the casein before bed. This will help prevent the body from feeding off of muscle throughout the night, especially after weight training. Cottage cheese before bedtime works almost as well...
  11426221
November 24, 2011 8:17 AM
QUOTE:

Personally I would stick with the Whey, you get a quicker absorption rate. The only time I use a Casein protein is at night before bed since it digests slower. There are some schools of thought that we can't digest over 10g or so at a time unless your body needs it. Like after a good strength training workout.

Good article here
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/protein-types-best-for-you.htm


Not trying to be a d1ck when I say this since I know you're just sharing an article, but I would avoid almost every article on the bodybuilding.com supersite. A lot of what they publish is complete garbage since they receive advertisement dollars from supplement companies.

The bb.com forums, especially most of the stickies, have GREAT information. Alan Aragon frequents (and moderates) the nutrition forums there and he's an industry leader in sports nutrition -- the supersite though, is crap.
November 24, 2011 8:19 AM
I buy separate protein powders for whey and casein. Whey I have in the morning and after a workout. Casein I have before bed.

The one I buy though (gold standard 100% whey/casein) has 3g carbs per scoop for both of them.
  1283483
November 24, 2011 8:28 AM
Yep i have 2 scoops whey after cardio in morning and 2 scoops after weights in evening then casein before bed blended with 10 egg whites yum yum lol

But i do sometimes use dymatize gourmet which is a casein/whey blend this way one tub does both jobs and lets be honest unless your Jay Cutler it wouldnt really matter what option you went for.
November 24, 2011 8:50 AM
Thanks everyone, I did read about people taking this before bed but from what I read it didn't say why, I just presumed they worked out at night so they happened to have a shake afterwards.

No, 6g is not "high-carb" per say it just factors into the fact that this protein is far from being 80%. The extra few grams of carbs won't throw off my balance. I have my ratio set to 40% so that’s about 130-140g carbs a day (about 110 net carbs).

Since I use protein powder to increase my protein intake and not because I am heavily into weight lifting (I actually am very guilty of avoiding strength training in general favouring spinning and kick boxing - cardio) then you guys are probably right, stick to whey.

Thank you!
  1100181
November 24, 2011 9:11 AM
QUOTE:

Thanks everyone, I did read about people taking this before bed but from what I read it didn't say why, I just presumed they worked out at night so they happened to have a shake afterwards.

No, 6g is not "high-carb" per say it just factors into the fact that this protein is far from being 80%. The extra few grams of carbs won't throw off my balance. I have my ratio set to 40% so that’s about 130-140g carbs a day (about 110 net carbs).

Since I use protein powder to increase my protein intake and not because I am heavily into weight lifting (I actually am very guilty of avoiding strength training in general favouring spinning and kick boxing - cardio) then you guys are probably right, stick to whey.

Thank you!
Except the difference between slow and fast acting is a moot point as far as overall protein intake is concerned. Also having protein release slower after a workout is somehow seen as a bad thing for some reason, which it isn't. People tend to buy into the micromanaged partitioning of protein far too much, just make sure your hitting your numbers at the end of the day is perfectly acceptable.
November 24, 2011 9:13 AM
QUOTE:


Except the difference between slow and fast acting is a moot point as far as overall protein intake is concerned. Also having protein release slower after a workout is somehow seen as a bad thing for some reason, which it isn't. People tend to buy into the micromanaged partitioning of protein far too much, just make sure your hitting your numbers at the end of the day is perfectly acceptable.


^ I agree with this. I think the main reason to decide between casein and whey would be whether or not you want to feel fuller, which apparently casein will aid in. Digestion/absoroption rates aren't really relevant.
November 24, 2011 10:11 AM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:


Except the difference between slow and fast acting is a moot point as far as overall protein intake is concerned. Also having protein release slower after a workout is somehow seen as a bad thing for some reason, which it isn't. People tend to buy into the micromanaged partitioning of protein far too much, just make sure your hitting your numbers at the end of the day is perfectly acceptable.


^ I agree with this. I think the main reason to decide between casein and whey would be whether or not you want to feel fuller, which apparently casein will aid in. Digestion/absoroption rates aren't really relevant.


Excellent!
  1100181
July 8, 2014 6:52 AM
The reality is that it ultimately depends on your goals. If you are athletic, if you perform resistance training, if you are a bodybuilder (I bodybuild, my wife is a NPC Bikini Model) then you want to know the difference between casein and whey. There is truly a sceince behind nutrient timing... and whereas whole food sources of protein should be your primary focus, for optimal performance and physqiue development, you need to be concerned with nutrient timing and the types of protein you are taking.

Most people will simply focus on Whey immediately post workout (Isolate Specifically) because of the quicker delivery to the blood stream and skeletal muscle, however there is plenty of research that suggests that the combination of whey and casein may be superior to either individually. I used to only use my micellar casein before bed, but now I switched to Cottege Cheese or Greek Yogurt with some kind of nut butter bed -- I have now moved my micellar casein (25g) to post-workout, along with a scoop of whey isolate (25g), creatine (15g) and cocoa powder (5g). It is cost effective, doesn't bother your stomach and provides a steady stream of protein for up to 8 hours after. Addittionally, the Leucine in the protein keeps you sensitive to Insulin, so if you are muscle building, this is a great thing since you need insulin (hormone) to grow.

Long story short, without going into too much detail, if you are athletic or looking to optimize performance (1) use your casein and whey blend post workout / post resistance training; (2) focus on your whole food protein sources; and (3) if you are looking for an overnight protein, I'd skip on the micellar casein (unless of course food would upset your stomach before bed) and simply use some cottege cheese / greek yogurt with some fat in it to meet your protein requirements.

However, if you are just a normal person looking for health, you really don't need much more than a high quality whole food protein source, in which any kind of milk product is the way to go (except ricotta, which is whey).
July 8, 2014 7:12 AM
I use Whey Isolate powder for everything. No casein or blends except for protein bars or meal replacement bars.
  40969895
July 8, 2014 8:28 AM
QUOTE:

Generally speaking you would use the whey protein during the day and the casein before bed. This will help prevent the body from feeding off of muscle throughout the night, especially after weight training. Cottage cheese before bedtime works almost as well...


No. Your body doesn't feed off of muscle throughout the night. Supplement companies push this myth, and would have you believe that if you aren't taking casein, you will go "catabolic" in your sleep. Net protein balance is all that matters at the end of the day.
July 8, 2014 9:18 AM
QUOTE:

The reality is that it ultimately depends on your goals. If you are athletic, if you perform resistance training, if you are a bodybuilder (I bodybuild, my wife is a NPC Bikini Model) then you want to know the difference between casein and whey. There is truly a sceince behind nutrient timing... and whereas whole food sources of protein should be your primary focus, for optimal performance and physqiue development, you need to be concerned with nutrient timing and the types of protein you are taking.

Most people will simply focus on Whey immediately post workout (Isolate Specifically) because of the quicker delivery to the blood stream and skeletal muscle, however there is plenty of research that suggests that the combination of whey and casein may be superior to either individually. I used to only use my micellar casein before bed, but now I switched to Cottege Cheese or Greek Yogurt with some kind of nut butter bed -- I have now moved my micellar casein (25g) to post-workout, along with a scoop of whey isolate (25g), creatine (15g) and cocoa powder (5g). It is cost effective, doesn't bother your stomach and provides a steady stream of protein for up to 8 hours after. Addittionally, the Leucine in the protein keeps you sensitive to Insulin, so if you are muscle building, this is a great thing since you need insulin (hormone) to grow.

Long story short, without going into too much detail, if you are athletic or looking to optimize performance (1) use your casein and whey blend post workout / post resistance training; (2) focus on your whole food protein sources; and (3) if you are looking for an overnight protein, I'd skip on the micellar casein (unless of course food would upset your stomach before bed) and simply use some cottege cheese / greek yogurt with some fat in it to meet your protein requirements.

However, if you are just a normal person looking for health, you really don't need much more than a high quality whole food protein source, in which any kind of milk product is the way to go (except ricotta, which is whey).


Nutrient timing, outside of reasons for physical performance, for elite athletes taking part in multiple training, competitive or endurance bouts within a short time period, or for completely fasted individuals taking part in strenuous physical activity (fasted for over 10 hours) is unnecessary. Even for fasted individuals, the question really is what is optimal vs necessary. The only true necessity is net protein balance at the end of the day.

Also, the rate of absorption of whey and casein is largely irrelevant. Depending on food choices, time of pre workout meal, make-up of daily meals etc., absorption rates will be blunted anyway. And yes, the marker by which muscle protein synthesis is stimulated and measured is leucine, but depending on pre workout and peri workout nutrition, MPS can be heightened for 8-10 hours post workout, or even longer. And as far as leucine and insulin sensitivity, it has been studied in mice that increased leucine supplementation only has an effect on insulin sensitivity in average or underweight animals. There was no benefit to obese or insulin resistant mice. Therefore, the easiest way to improve insulin sensitivity is through diet and to lose fat and build muscle, not just through supplementation alone.

Again, at the end of the day, net protein balance is all that matters. Whey or casein protein isn't a requirement if one can meet all needs through whole foods.

Reply

Message Boards » Food and Nutrition

Posts by members, moderators and admins should not be considered medical advice and no guarantee is made against accuracy.