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TOPIC: r/Keto? (high-fat, adequate-protein, low-carbohydrate diet)

 
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October 24, 2011 12:49 AM
Anyone here familiar with keto?

I've subscribed to r/loseit and keep seeing posts about keto. I read the keto FAQs (http://www.reddit.com/help/faqs/keto) but I am still at a loss. What is it?! FAQs state: "The ketogenic diet is a high-fat, adequate-protein, low-carbohydrate diet." Sounds simple enough. Maybe too simple?

It says, "If you are strict keto, it is nearly impossible for you to gain fat while on this diet." So that is reassuring.

* Is it just eating a bunch of high-fat foods?
The FAQs say, "60% fat, 35% protein, and 5% carbs" for a ratio. That just sounds like Atkins to me. Am I wrong?

* Do you still stick to a calorie goal?
FAQ states: "No. Calorie counting is not a requirement of keto. Some people insist to not count calories and instead listen to when your body tells you it's hungry. Others, track their calories religiously and stick to daily calorie limits. Find what works best for your body; you may find that when just starting out, keeping track of your carb counts and calories will help you be more successful with keto." So, that's a super wishy-washy answer. But, if it's up to me, I would still stick to calorie goal meaning I would get to eat like 3 eggs, a pad of butter and a couple ounces of cheese all day and that's it! How is this sustainable?

* Are there any reliable scientific data sources to back up the claims that doing keto results in weight loss?

* FAQs state, "Keto, by design, burns fat while preserving your muscle." Does this mean that someone training for a fitness/body competition would do well in keto?

HALPZ!!1!

P.S.: I will also ask the r/keto community questions as I become more interested but I don't want to inundate them with a bunch of noob questions they probably hear 24/7. tongue
  4853758
October 24, 2011 12:52 AM
I haven't heard of keto as being a specific diet like you posted about, just one low in carbs that sends your body into ketosis which is not really a "diet" but a condition that happens when you eat super low carb. I can't really comment on if it would work, but it does sound suspect to me...I wouldn't do it. If you didn't have to count calories...and since foods high in fat are high calorie too...then how do you not overeat everyday without keeping track? Cause I know I would.
October 24, 2011 12:55 AM
That's my thinking, too, Lyadeia.

It just seems like so many people follow it so I wanted to investigate with an open mind.

I, personally, am still losing at a really great rate so I won't be doing this anytime soon. I just set a goal for myself to compete in a fitness competition at some point in the next 2-3 years so I'm looking for things that will give me an edge when that happens.
  4853758
October 24, 2011 1:11 AM
Regarding the overeating question, it's a lot harder to eat high volumes of carbless foods. When there is fat or protein in your stomach it sends a chemical impulse to your brain to lessen your appetite. In the past I've sometimes done low- or no-carb for 3 days or a week to try to drop some weight quick and I've found that after a day or two I don't want to ever see another piece of meat for the rest of my life. That's just my experience (I'm a big carb-eater, always will be).
October 24, 2011 1:20 AM
QUOTE:

Regarding the overeating question, it's a lot harder to eat high volumes of carbless foods. When there is fat or protein in your stomach it sends a chemical impulse to your brain to lessen your appetite. In the past I've sometimes done low- or no-carb for 3 days or a week to try to drop some weight quick and I've found that after a day or two I don't want to ever see another piece of meat for the rest of my life. That's just my experience (I'm a big carb-eater, always will be).


I was vegetarian for 8 years and still find it difficult to incorporate meat into my diet. I just don't really like meat. :/ Boneless, skinless chicken breast has really been it so far this year. So I can imagine I'd feel similarly if eating lots of meat. Though, you're dead on about it killing hunger. Protein is amazing!

Thanks for the insight in this comment! drinker
  4853758
October 24, 2011 1:20 AM
Hello!

Current comments are correct ketosis is where you are not ingesting carbs so the body goes into a state of ketosis to burn the carbs already in your body. If you do it you have to make sure to drink plenty of fluids

I was on Atkins which is Net carbs of 20 grams per day. Net carbs being total carbs less fibre. I am currently having dinner and I am having a salad (spinach,lettuce,beetroot leaves, mushrooms, cheese, tomato, mayo) with 1 sausage and 30grams of mccain fries and I must say I love the diet.

I did lose 8 kilos in my first 3 weeks which I was happy about, but I will say that alot of it at first is water weight, as carbs hold water.

The reason I'm on this diet is because after weeks of counting calories and exercising I had lost no weight and after blood tests it was found that I am insulin resistant, so a low carb diet is beneficial to me.

I'm currently on net carbs of 50 or less per day now, as with Atkins you slowly work back in the carbs to find a level that you still lose weight.

I also still always count my calories. Low carb or high carb you still have to eat less energy than you use to lose weight.

Good luck, feel free to join me as a friend if you like I love seeing everyones progress :)

Jess
Edited by Jessb1985 On October 24, 2011 1:21 AM
  9778692
October 24, 2011 1:40 AM
I am a Redditor so I did r/keto for about a month. Personally, I lost about 10lbs but I found it really hard to stick to after a while. Not because of the food, jsut because I got really sick of what I was eating, i..e cheese, bacon, meat, cheese, cheese, cheese. I am a terrible cook though so probably 80% of this reason is because I'm lazy and uncreative with food.

It *DID* work but honestly I didn't see any crazy losses after the initial week. There is research that's been done saying that low-carb/keto diets in the long run don't really help to make people lose "more" or "faster".

BUT, I think you should see if it works for you, because I definitely believe it works and if you like it then do it! It was nice not having to count calories (though I did anyway.)
October 24, 2011 2:53 AM
I'm an avid follower of r/keto, and if you don't want to eat meat, there's an r/vegetarianketo group. I really enjoy keto, I mean I miss the carbs, but I love the meat and it's great to be able to use so much coconut oil and butter and whatnot. If nothing else, it's really helped me eat more veggies. I eat way better on keto than I ever did before.

Honestly though the MFP boards are not a great place to look for advice on keto. Most people here are die-hard carb addicts who hate low carb. Just because carby diets work for some people doesn't mean they work for everyone, and frankly my stomach bothers me a lot less than it used to when I ate carbs before.

Edit: And ask newb questions on r/keto. Most of them are friendly, though you'll get a lot of suggestions to read Taubes and the beginner's faqs, lol. And it is kind of like atkins induction phase, yes, except stay away from atkins marketed products since they're all super processed. My macro ratios tend more towards 65-70%, 20g or less of carbs, and the rest as protein, which works for me.

And your "But, if it's up to me, I would still stick to calorie goal meaning I would get to eat like 3 eggs, a pad of butter and a couple ounces of cheese all day and that's it! How is this sustainable?" Are you eating like 400 calories a day? Because that's what it sounds like. I can eat bacon and eggs for breakfast, some spinach, cheese, and leftover meat for lunch, and a steak and salad for dinner and stay within 1600 calories. Half the time I can't even meet my calorie allotment for the day. Track your food on keto, imo, it helps you recognize amounts and ratios in the long run, but I don't sweat it if I go over on a day.
Edited by auctoritas On October 24, 2011 2:57 AM
  10563797
October 24, 2011 7:03 AM
My husband and I are doing Keto right now and we love it. /rKeto is a fantastic resource! We're a month in, and for us it does not feel like a diet at all.

We actually find it really easy to follow. We DO have a set caloric intake (you will not lose weight on any diet without watching calories). The difference is, because of the fat intake, we are eating the same number of calories, but never hungry like we were on a LFHC diet.

We do not live on bacon like a lot of the redditors in r/Keto (probably because we're almost twice most of their ages :P), and are taking an approach much closer to Paleo (which we'll switch to after we've lost weight on Keto for maintenance). We eat a lot of high-fiber veggies and lean meats. We get our fats from things like cream sauces, oils, butter and nuts. I'm blogging our recipes if you want to see what we're eating: http://www.ketoblog.net. We also track our food diaries publicly here (his user name/diary is DASnerdly).

You lose faster on Keto the more over-weight you are. I lost ~7 pounds from the day we started (not reflected on the blog, because we are using 'weigh dates' and I weighed 2 pounds heavier on our weigh date than the rest of the week and we started recording it several days after we actually started). When I started, I had 30 pounds to lose. My husband has 60-70 pounds to lose, and he's lost ~17 . There is an initial loss of water weight, so our really rough guess is that starting now in our second month, I'll be losing 3-5 pounds a month, and he'll be losing 8-10. Due to an injury, we also have not been exercising, so that may change, as we based this on doing Keto without exercise.

You CAN lose crazy amounts of weight on it if you are go the bacon route (which we are not). I did a lot of research before we started it, and unless you're willing to continue to drop grains (for the most part, we'll be eating some when we get to maintenance), you won't keep it off. Since we are not going as strict, we are losing weight slower. We decided we want to be able to keep it off and for it to be sustainable. We're eating a lot of things like spaghetti squash and nuts that slow us down more than if we got more fat from meat.

For us it's about creating a healthy diet (and yes, believe it or not, the right fats are healthy) for long-term, not just dropping weight. I encourage you if you are interested to really take the time to read all the studies, watch the documentaries, and read some books. There's a lot of 'gurus' out there that make it sound like a fad diet, which is what initially had me skeptical. I spent two months researching and talked to a doctor. I was originally very pro-LFHC, was a vegetarian for 7 years, and I actually can lose weight that way — my husband cannot. After all the research, not only is the diet part of this easier for him, I believe it is healthier for both of us. We both have a LOT more energy, and generally feel better than we have in years. That being said, it's a big shift in how to approach diet and is not for everyone, especially if you don't like to cook.
Edited by RustyDogma On October 24, 2011 7:44 AM
  10985849
November 11, 2011 8:34 AM
It works!!! Seriously fast and feels great!
I love it, your body learns to burn fat (a slow burning caloric source) vs glycogen (fast burning). I find it works really well if I am lifting heavy weights and gaining muscle. It will lean you out quickly and within a few days you cut the cravings for sweets & carbs. I eat lots of green veggies and leafy greens (broccoli, green beans, kale, spinach, etc)
Refeed days (1x/week) - eat lots of carbs & sugar, some protein & lots of water. The following day you will have the most energy to push harder at the gym, and do it because you will be using that sugar from the day before & building muscle. (a muscular body burns more calories in resting state). For adding enough fat & calories - I add in Coconut milk & Coconut oil. At first it may seem strange consuming that much fat, but really it feeds your brain and teaches your body to burn fat first.
* Everybody cheats a little on a diet, but with a single day every week built in - it makes it much easier to wait til that day and reap the benefits.
November 11, 2011 8:47 AM
QUOTE:

I haven't heard of keto as being a specific diet like you posted about, just one low in carbs that sends your body into ketosis which is not really a "diet" but a condition that happens when you eat super low carb. I can't really comment on if it would work, but it does sound suspect to me...I wouldn't do it. If you didn't have to count calories...and since foods high in fat are high calorie too...then how do you not overeat everyday without keeping track? Cause I know I would.


Most people that do ketogenic diets eat no processed foods and therefore there is a major calorie deficit.

I eater higher fat than the recommendations most days keeping my ratios similar to 70% fat, 25% protein, 5% carbs coming from lots of green leafy vegetables.

And there are days I struggle to get to 1,000 calories.
November 11, 2011 8:49 AM
QUOTE:

I am a Redditor so I did r/keto for about a month. Personally, I lost about 10lbs but I found it really hard to stick to after a while. Not because of the food, jsut because I got really sick of what I was eating, i..e cheese, bacon, meat, cheese, cheese, cheese. I am a terrible cook though so probably 80% of this reason is because I'm lazy and uncreative with food.

It *DID* work but honestly I didn't see any crazy losses after the initial week. There is research that's been done saying that low-carb/keto diets in the long run don't really help to make people lose "more" or "faster".

BUT, I think you should see if it works for you, because I definitely believe it works and if you like it then do it! It was nice not having to count calories (though I did anyway.)


I think the "studies" say this because most people get so motivated with the initial loss than it motivates them to keep going and get more active...........which makes the weight loss become "normal" just like any other plan.............
November 11, 2011 9:29 AM
My Calories come from: 10% Carbs, 50% Fat, 40% Protein (1gm / pound body weight). No processed foods, all from scratch/simple in my kitchen.
I always get between 1300-1600 calories/ day because I do not want my body to go into starvation mode. & I need calories to keep fully functional, awake, focused and energetic.
Grokette - what are you eating? Are you getting in at least 3-4 meals a day?
Edited by bumblepop77 On November 11, 2011 9:32 AM
November 11, 2011 9:50 AM
I've followed cyclical ketogenic diets in the past and a good starting point is this link:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=36497&highlight=cyclic+keto+diet

Not only does it go into diet requirements Mon to Fri but also covers weekend carb re-loading as well as training on whilst on the CKD.
November 11, 2011 1:05 PM
I'm eating CKD at the moment, too. I lost 28 lbs on the Atkins a few years ago and it was quick and easy and, once the first few days were out of the way I felt great on it - I could work out and I didn't get energy spikes.

I stayed at that weight for over a year but carbs gradually began to work their way in which, in addition to high fats is a DISASTER! So by this summer I had gained the weight back. I tried low fat for 4 months of the summer and even with strict calorie control and LOTS of exercise I was losing maybe a pound a fortnight. I read up on CKD and shifted to that and in 8 weeks I have lost 14lbs of fat (and more in weight, but I don't count the extra 7lbs I've "lost" as it's only water weight and it comes and goes every week after I've had my carb re-feed).

I've had to adapt it a bit though - I found a 2 day re-feed was too much. In fact, even one day is pushing it, so what I'm doing now, which seems to work, is have a refeed meal one week and a refeed day the next. This seems to work best both psychologically and physically. I've recently started running and have no issues with endurance and I've found that when I do eat carbs I now get quite bad indigestion. On the actual low carb days, though, I have no issues at all.

I like this way of eating, especially as I seem to be quite "carb sensitive." At some point I'd like to switch to a low carb (rather than sub 30g carb) diet, though - maybe where I can just have enough carbs to have some oatmeal in the morning and some sandwiches for lunch, then no carbs after that. But we shall have to wait and see. According to Tom Venuto, another benefit of the carb refeed days is that you don't alter your metabolism to the point where if you come off the diet you instantly put the weight back on, something which can happen if you stay in keto for months on end and then start eating carbs again.
  8009864
November 11, 2011 1:09 PM
Keto diets have no metabolic advantage. And all diets work the same way, by caloric restriction
November 11, 2011 2:10 PM
I really don't believe that.

Studies can say what they like (and there ARE plenty of studies that say otherwise - just check out the Bibliographies of "The Anabolic Diet"), but all I care about is personal experience. On the MFP-recommended 2000 calories a day (tracked meticulously on MFP) with 5 workouts a week of 6 - 900 calories per session, I was barely losing on a low fat diet - maybe a pound a fortnight - often even less. I tried increasing calories, decreasing them, zig-zagging.... Weight loss was continuously and painfully slow.

On CKD, with a similar caloric intake and workout schedule, I'm losing 2 or more lbs a week (not counting the initial 9 lb loss in the first week, 7lbs of which I know is water weight, as it comes and goes following each refeed day.

I don't care how it works or if it SHOULDN'T work. All I know is that the results speak for themselves.
  8009864
November 11, 2011 2:15 PM
I also believe that people are all different when it comes to macro intake. When I hear of some of the horror stories some people have with low carb diets, it just doesn't chime with me. I can run 4 miles, cycle 20 and spin hard for 60 minutes with no fatigue issues. My lifts continue to increase and I've had no issues with feeling "flat" or getting a pump. Indeed, carbs make me feel bloated and sluggish, and if I eat too many I even get heartburn. I feel much better all-round on low carb. Indeed, even Tom Venuto, who is no proponent of low carb by any means, agrees that some people NEED low carb to lose weight, regardless of calorie restriction and/or exercise. That certainly rings true in my own personal experience.
  8009864

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