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April 8, 2011 4:50 PM
I recently saw that some ignore the sugar they consume from fruit in what they record in MFP in relation to their nutrition targets. Does sugar from fruit not have the same affect on your body as processed sugars? Also, how do you "ignore" it - just subtract it out in your head?
  3644620
April 8, 2011 4:52 PM
As a Diabetic, sugar is sugar. If it's from organic honey, if it's from fruit or out of a packet. It affects your blood glucose levels. I eat an orange it's gonna raise my level just maybe a bit slower but it still does.
  5851046
April 8, 2011 4:53 PM
That is what I would have thought - so why do some not count it?
  3644620
April 8, 2011 4:54 PM
Personally, i feel that the positive benefits of eating fruit totally outweigh the small negative of going over on my rather arbitary preset daily sugar allowance.

I still log the fruit, I just don't get stressed by it if my sugars go over by a small amount on that day.

Frankly, I didn't get fat or unhealthy from eating fruit!
  6288475
April 8, 2011 4:55 PM
QUOTE:

Personally, i feel that the positive benefits of eating fruit totally outweigh the small negative of going over on my rather arbitary preset daily sugar allowance.

I still log the fruit, I just don't get stressed by it if my sugars go over by a small amount on that day.

Frankly, I didn't get fat or unhealthy from eating fruit!


Seconded!
  1211418
April 8, 2011 4:56 PM
QUOTE:

That is what I would have thought - so why do some not count it?

Maybe they are relatively healthier? I assume others don't focus on it as much as Diabetics do. Time and time again I hear some non Diabetic telling me, well just eat this honey, it's ORGANIC. It's good for you. Eat some whole grains! It's good for you. Carbs..organic or not..we have to watch our intake. But healthier poeple don't have to worry as much as we do I guess. Half the stuff I see non Diabetics eat here that is healthy I can't touch. Carrots raise bg levels for gosh sakes!
  5851046
April 8, 2011 5:00 PM
Fruit contains natural sugar - fructose. If you're going to start picking apart different types of sugars from your foods, realize that all carbohydrates turn into sugar in your body. That's why people with diabetes have to count carbs, not sugar. Sugar is sugar is sugar. It's the fuel our bodies want and need for energy.

All that being said - YES fruit is healthy for you and YES it has many nutrients that processed/refined sugars do not have. HOWEVER - this new "Weight Watchers Points" fruit is free thing is not exactly a good way to go. Eating a TON of fruit will definitely make you gain weight. In general, most of us here need 1 1/2 - 2 cups of fruit a day... translated into pieces of fruit, 1 large banana (8-9") would be a cup of fruit, or 1 small apple. As far as carbohydrates and sugars are concerned, serving sizes are a bit different... and that's a whole other can of worms. Essentially know that some fruits have more sugar than others (like bananas versus watermelon or apple) so therefore they will have more calories. (1 gram carbohydrate = 4 calories)

For fruit serving sizes check out: http://www.mypyramid.gov/pyramid/fruits_counts_table.html

- Your friendly neighborhood dietetic intern.
  4431158
April 8, 2011 5:02 PM
QUOTE:
why do some not count it?
If you are asking why do some not concern themselves about it, it's because for a person in normal health the daily preset limits on here are only guidelines; eating extra fruit on one day will not sabotage a healthy eating programme.

If you are asking why some (who record all their food) eat fruit yet fail to record it, I can only imagine that it's because they think that not recording a food means that it will have somehow not been consumed...
Edited by TourThePast On April 8, 2011 5:04 PM
  6288475
April 8, 2011 5:05 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

That is what I would have thought - so why do some not count it?

Maybe they are relatively healthier? I assume others don't focus on it as much as Diabetics do. Time and time again I hear some non Diabetic telling me, well just eat this honey, it's ORGANIC. It's good for you. Eat some whole grains! It's good for you. Carbs..organic or not..we have to watch our intake. But healthier poeple don't have to worry as much as we do I guess. Half the stuff I see non Diabetics eat here that is healthy I can't touch. Carrots raise bg levels for gosh sakes!


With diabetes you have to be consistent with your carbs, however you don't need to eliminate them. You should have 45-60 grams of carbohydrates per meal. And like you said, a carb is a carb is a carb - it all turns to blood glucose. In your case you want the healthiest carbs with fiber to help you feel full (plus fiber is a carb that is not fully digested). Carrots are considered a "free food" but yes, they do raise blood glucose, not as much as corn, or peas, or potatoes, however.

Organic doesn't make a difference, either, you're right. But - there is NOTHING that you can't touch! You can eat what you want, within reason, watching portion sizes.

Essentially a "diabetic diet" is a very healthy diet, it's good for EVERYONE with or without diabetes to keep their blood sugar consistent, people with diabetes just have to be more diligent about it. And a "diabetic diet" if followed correctly and with exercise incorporated is a good weight loss diet.
  4431158
April 8, 2011 5:06 PM
I'm not diebetic or doing weight watchers. I just been adjusting my diet to consume an appropriate amount of all nutrients. When I learned that some don't count sugar from fruits I thought maybe there was something I didn't understand about sugar in fruits. If I ignore sugar because it is from fuit, can I ignore the calories too? tongue
  3644620
April 8, 2011 5:08 PM
I don't track my sugar from fruit, it doesn't bother me, I was getting more and "worse" sugar from the chocolate bars or hard candies that I previously snacked heavily on.

I've been looking for a post but I can't find it, someone who indicates they are diabetic posted in the last couple days what happens to their blood glucose levels after different meals... again I've LOOKED for the thread using googles advanced search to look for key words but I can't find the post... the meals were something like a candy bar putting blood level to 170, piece of fruit 150 (stayed at this for a longer time?) and a meal 150.. really wish I could find it as it's not the same me just posting numbers, I was glad to see if though.
  3335912
April 8, 2011 5:13 PM
QUOTE:

I'm not diebetic or doing weight watchers. I just been adjusting my diet to consume an appropriate amount of all nutrients. When I learned that some don't count sugar from fruits I thought maybe there was something I didn't understand about sugar in fruits. If I ignore sugar because it is from fuit, can I ignore the calories too? tongue


Fruit is good for you. Eat it in the appropriate amounts. If your sugar is over because you ate an appropriate amount of fruit that day, or maybe 1 extra, I would definitely not sweat it but it still counts. Those grams of sugar still turn into calories, and your body stores any "extra calories" as fat. So the sugar counts, no matter what kinda sugar "good bad or otherwise". It's all basic nutrition science - if you want to lose weight, your calories in must be less than your calories out (from every day living, breathing, thinking, existing, exercising, etc.)
  4431158
April 8, 2011 5:16 PM
QUOTE:

I don't track my sugar from fruit, it doesn't bother me, I was getting more and "worse" sugar from the chocolate bars or hard candies that I previously snacked heavily on.

I've been looking for a post but I can't find it, someone who indicates they are diabetic posted in the last couple days what happens to their blood glucose levels after different meals... again I've LOOKED for the thread using googles advanced search to look for key words but I can't find the post... the meals were something like a candy bar putting blood level to 170, piece of fruit 150 (stayed at this for a longer time?) and a meal 150.. really wish I could find it as it's not the same me just posting numbers, I was glad to see if though.


Every person is different, diabetes or not, different food affects blood sugar levels differently person to person. For example, one person who eats a peanut butter sandwich and an apple may check their blood sugar after eating and find their glucose to be 140. Another might check and it will be 200. Also need to consider what kind of medications they are taking (if any) to manage their diabetes.
  4431158
April 8, 2011 5:29 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

I'm not diebetic or doing weight watchers. I just been adjusting my diet to consume an appropriate amount of all nutrients. When I learned that some don't count sugar from fruits I thought maybe there was something I didn't understand about sugar in fruits. If I ignore sugar because it is from fuit, can I ignore the calories too? tongue


Fruit is good for you. Eat it in the appropriate amounts. If your sugar is over because you ate an appropriate amount of fruit that day, or maybe 1 extra, I would definitely not sweat it but it still counts. Those grams of sugar still turn into calories, and your body stores any "extra calories" as fat. So the sugar counts, no matter what kinda sugar "good bad or otherwise". It's all basic nutrition science - if you want to lose weight, your calories in must be less than your calories out (from every day living, breathing, thinking, existing, exercising, etc.)

Take a look at my charts here - I made several changes that had a dramatic affect on my weight loss progress. One of them was reducing my sugar intake to within the suggested limits, which I believed has helped me control my hunger. I heave learned a ton on here - now I know that sugar from fruit affects the body the same as refined sugar.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/207897-analysis-of-the-past-month-including-charts-and-data
  3644620
April 8, 2011 5:34 PM
QUOTE:

Fruit contains natural sugar - fructose.

Not true. Fruits contain sucrose, glucose, and fructose, and some contain other kinds of sugars as well. There is nothing more "natural" about the fructose that is in fruit than the fructose in high-fructose corn syrup. Sucrose, which is what table sugar is, is the way plants long term store excess sugar, like we animals use fats.

Some people don't count fruits because fruits are also packed with anti-oxidants, fiber, water and vitamins, so it can be argued that you gain more benefit from the good stuff than you are harmed by the bad stuff. That does not mean the sugars in fruit are less bad, though.
  5357058
April 8, 2011 5:50 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

Fruit contains natural sugar - fructose.

Not true. Fruits contain sucrose, glucose, and fructose, and some contain other kinds of sugars as well. There is nothing more "natural" about the fructose that is in fruit than the fructose in high-fructose corn syrup. Sucrose, which is what table sugar is, is the way plants long term store excess sugar, like we animals use fats.

Some people don't count fruits because fruits are also packed with anti-oxidants, fiber, water and vitamins, so it can be argued that you gain more benefit from the good stuff than you are harmed by the bad stuff. That does not mean the sugars in fruit are less bad, though.

Thank you - are sucrose, glucose, and fructose processed by our bodies in the same ways? I still eat fruit mysefl - just working to understand accurately the whole sugar thing.
  3644620
April 8, 2011 5:52 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

Fruit contains natural sugar - fructose.

Not true. Fruits contain sucrose, glucose, and fructose, and some contain other kinds of sugars as well. There is nothing more "natural" about the fructose that is in fruit than the fructose in high-fructose corn syrup. Sucrose, which is what table sugar is, is the way plants long term store excess sugar, like we animals use fats.

Some people don't count fruits because fruits are also packed with anti-oxidants, fiber, water and vitamins, so it can be argued that you gain more benefit from the good stuff than you are harmed by the bad stuff. That does not mean the sugars in fruit are less bad, though.


Yes, it does contain other sugars, but the main sugar in fruit is fructose. Just like the main sugar in milk is lactose. And those sugars are "naturally occurring", they are not refined, they are not processed. Everything else you said is accurate, however I would never advocate high-fructose corn syrup. Our bodies metabolize fructose a little differently than we metabolize sucrose - fructose is converted more easily to fat than sucrose is. That doesn't mean that you should stock up on candy bars (also full of fat) or eat spoonfuls of sugar (no nutritional value) and cut out fruit. Like you said, fruit contains so many nutrients that are essential to human nutrition, some things we don't even know for sure their potential yet. Diet and nutrition is all about balance. MFP is pretty good with their nutrition science so staying within their goals for you is a good target for weight loss and healthy diet.
  4431158
April 8, 2011 5:54 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

Fruit contains natural sugar - fructose.

Not true. Fruits contain sucrose, glucose, and fructose, and some contain other kinds of sugars as well. There is nothing more "natural" about the fructose that is in fruit than the fructose in high-fructose corn syrup. Sucrose, which is what table sugar is, is the way plants long term store excess sugar, like we animals use fats.

Some people don't count fruits because fruits are also packed with anti-oxidants, fiber, water and vitamins, so it can be argued that you gain more benefit from the good stuff than you are harmed by the bad stuff. That does not mean the sugars in fruit are less bad, though.

Thank you - are sucrose, glucose, and fructose processed by our bodies in the same ways? I still eat fruit mysefl - just working to understand accurately the whole sugar thing.


As I said in my previous post, yes - they are processed a little differently, but all sugars in foods are converted to glucose in our body and used for fuel. Any excess glucose is stored in the liver or made into fat. And that would explain why when you meet your sugar/carbohydrate goals from MFP, you lose weight - you're not storing as much glucose as fat.
Edited by mindspinmegs311 On April 8, 2011 6:00 PM
  4431158
April 8, 2011 9:05 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

Fruit contains natural sugar - fructose.

Not true. Fruits contain sucrose, glucose, and fructose, and some contain other kinds of sugars as well. There is nothing more "natural" about the fructose that is in fruit than the fructose in high-fructose corn syrup. Sucrose, which is what table sugar is, is the way plants long term store excess sugar, like we animals use fats.

Some people don't count fruits because fruits are also packed with anti-oxidants, fiber, water and vitamins, so it can be argued that you gain more benefit from the good stuff than you are harmed by the bad stuff. That does not mean the sugars in fruit are less bad, though.

Thank you - are sucrose, glucose, and fructose processed by our bodies in the same ways? I still eat fruit mysefl - just working to understand accurately the whole sugar thing.

Well, yes, and no... smile

Sucrose is a disaccharide, meaning it is made up of 2 sugar molecules. One Glucose, and one Fructose. These are the 3 primary sugars you will encounter in plants. In many fruits, such as pineapple and apricot, sucrose is the main sugar. In others, such as grapes and pears, fructose is the main sugar. All 3 of these sugars are found in fruits in different percentages depending on the fruit. Plants produce glucose and fructose for their own internal processes and convert the excess into sucrose for long term storage.

In the human body, Sucrose is broken down very quickly in the stomach by a catalyst glycoside hydrolase. This breaks the molecule apart into glucose and fructose, which is readily absorbed into the blood. (this is why blood sugar spike so quickly with these simple sugars.)

Once in your system, any cell in the body can metabolize glucose. This is the power source that your body needs. The glucose is either used immediately, or by any cell, it can be changed into glycogen for short term storage. Fructose is more difficult. Only the liver cells can process Fructose. Fructose is converted there in to Glycogen. Cells can then convert the Glycogen back to Glucose for fuel. If you have excess Glycogen, your body will convert it into triglycerides (fat) for longterm storage in fat cells.

So eventually all 3 sugars are processed in the same way, but it takes a little preprocessing for some of them. Fructose seems to cause a host of troubles before it can get converted. This is why we have a lot of people fighting High Fructose Corn Syrup these days. High Fructose Corn Syrup is 85% Sucrose and 15% Fructose. Honey goes the opposite way, it is 85% Sucrose and 15% Glucose.

None of these sugars are very good for a human in excess (as most things).

Some people choose to rail against "processed" sugars as if this has anything to do with the chemical processes. As if Bees don't "process" honey. Refined table sugar is not somehow mixed together from toxic chemicals in a lab. It is pulled out of plants. I don't understand how one sugar is "natural" and the other is not.


Edit: Just to be clear, I'm not saying not to eat fruit. Fruit has many benefits, it's just that the sugars in fruit have the same effects on the body as any other sugar. If you are diabetic, then I think this would be something you should probably ask your doctor about, otherwise, it is probably not as important in the face of the fruit's benefit. I am not a doctor, though, only a scholar. smile
Edited by KeyMasterOfGozer On April 8, 2011 9:28 PM
  5357058
April 8, 2011 9:08 PM
QUOTE:

Personally, i feel that the positive benefits of eating fruit totally outweigh the small negative of going over on my rather arbitary preset daily sugar allowance.

I still log the fruit, I just don't get stressed by it if my sugars go over by a small amount on that day.

Frankly, I didn't get fat or unhealthy from eating fruit!


Yep.

Some people tend to not want to eat fruit because of the sugar and they stress over it, but its not that serious for the average person.
April 8, 2011 9:11 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

That is what I would have thought - so why do some not count it?

Maybe they are relatively healthier? I assume others don't focus on it as much as Diabetics do. Time and time again I hear some non Diabetic telling me, well just eat this honey, it's ORGANIC. It's good for you. Eat some whole grains! It's good for you. Carbs..organic or not..we have to watch our intake. But healthier poeple don't have to worry as much as we do I guess. Half the stuff I see non Diabetics eat here that is healthy I can't touch. Carrots raise bg levels for gosh sakes!


Well I've lost a sizeable amount of weight and I've never stressed on sugar from fruit. Now if its a health issues such as you have its understandable. But other than that most people should consume fruit, but everything has to be done in moderation of course.
April 8, 2011 9:21 PM
QUOTE:

Yes, it does contain other sugars, but the main sugar in fruit is fructose. Just like the main sugar in milk is lactose. And those sugars are "naturally occurring", they are not refined, they are not processed.

Many fresh fruits contain high levels of sucrose, including nectarines, mangoes, jackfruit, peaches, cantaloupe, apricots and bananas. Sucrose makes up about 73 percent of the 8.5 g of total sugar in 100 g of fresh apricots and about 67 percent of the 14.8 g of total sugar in 100 g of mangoes. Bananas contain 15.6 g of total sugar, but sucrose makes up only 42 percent of that total.

There are as many different ratios of sugars in fruit as there are fruit. Not that I subscribe to the diet, but the Paleo Diet website used to have a nice chart of the percentages of sugars in different fruits, but they have taken it down for some reason.

All "refined/processed" sugar is also "naturally occurring". It is the exact same sugar and is grown in plants the same way. The refinement process only separates the sugar from the "other stuff" in the plant. This doesn't change the sugar molecule, nor how it is used in the body.
  5357058
April 9, 2011 1:13 AM
Keymaster - thank you so much. A few questions My understanding of the reason that whole grains are good for us is to slow the process of conversion to glucose and thus avoid the spikes. Do I have that right? And, the idea behind more, smaller meals is the same thing - spread out the process to avoid spikes. Because the spikes lead to declines which then dramatically increases our hunger which leads to binge eating.

Assuming I have the above correctly and if I understand what you say about sucrose, are we not better off favoring high sucrose intake for these same reasons?

Also, I have heard the concept of "overloading your liver" is also not good - is this where the problem with fructose comes in? Is this the long term effect of alcoholism on the liver?
  3644620
April 9, 2011 2:30 AM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

That is what I would have thought - so why do some not count it?

Maybe they are relatively healthier? I assume others don't focus on it as much as Diabetics do. Time and time again I hear some non Diabetic telling me, well just eat this honey, it's ORGANIC. It's good for you. Eat some whole grains! It's good for you. Carbs..organic or not..we have to watch our intake. But healthier poeple don't have to worry as much as we do I guess. Half the stuff I see non Diabetics eat here that is healthy I can't touch. Carrots raise bg levels for gosh sakes!


With diabetes you have to be consistent with your carbs, however you don't need to eliminate them. You should have 45-60 grams of carbohydrates per meal. And like you said, a carb is a carb is a carb - it all turns to blood glucose. In your case you want the healthiest carbs with fiber to help you feel full (plus fiber is a carb that is not fully digested). Carrots are considered a "free food" but yes, they do raise blood glucose, not as much as corn, or peas, or potatoes, however.

Organic doesn't make a difference, either, you're right. But - there is NOTHING that you can't touch! You can eat what you want, within reason, watching portion sizes.

Essentially a "diabetic diet" is a very healthy diet, it's good for EVERYONE with or without diabetes to keep their blood sugar consistent, people with diabetes just have to be more diligent about it. And a "diabetic diet" if followed correctly and with exercise incorporated is a good weight loss diet.

Oh I totally agree with your post! For each Diabetic, we react differently to different carbs. Which is why we always say trust your meter. I started by testing my bg before a meal and 2 hours when I peak. I found I can eat oatmeal just fine. But 2 slices of low carb Sara Lee bread and I spike something awful. For me, sandwich bread is out unless it's a later meal and I need it. And a Diabetic diet is a good choice for lots of people. I read so many threads here of poeple starving themselves and hungry as hell. I have yet to be hungry. And I eat 5 small meals/snacks a day. Pretty much every 3 hours I am snacking on something healthy for me. And yes, spreading out your carbs is good. You don't feel so drained like you do when you eat a big portion all at once. I also try to eat my carbs with a good healthy fat because it helps work the carbs better.
  5851046
April 9, 2011 5:48 AM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:

That is what I would have thought - so why do some not count it?

Maybe they are relatively healthier? I assume others don't focus on it as much as Diabetics do. Time and time again I hear some non Diabetic telling me, well just eat this honey, it's ORGANIC. It's good for you. Eat some whole grains! It's good for you. Carbs..organic or not..we have to watch our intake. But healthier poeple don't have to worry as much as we do I guess. Half the stuff I see non Diabetics eat here that is healthy I can't touch. Carrots raise bg levels for gosh sakes!


With diabetes you have to be consistent with your carbs, however you don't need to eliminate them. You should have 45-60 grams of carbohydrates per meal. And like you said, a carb is a carb is a carb - it all turns to blood glucose. In your case you want the healthiest carbs with fiber to help you feel full (plus fiber is a carb that is not fully digested). Carrots are considered a "free food" but yes, they do raise blood glucose, not as much as corn, or peas, or potatoes, however.

Organic doesn't make a difference, either, you're right. But - there is NOTHING that you can't touch! You can eat what you want, within reason, watching portion sizes.

Essentially a "diabetic diet" is a very healthy diet, it's good for EVERYONE with or without diabetes to keep their blood sugar consistent, people with diabetes just have to be more diligent about it. And a "diabetic diet" if followed correctly and with exercise incorporated is a good weight loss diet.

Oh I totally agree with your post! For each Diabetic, we react differently to different carbs. Which is why we always say trust your meter. I started by testing my bg before a meal and 2 hours when I peak. I found I can eat oatmeal just fine. But 2 slices of low carb Sara Lee bread and I spike something awful. For me, sandwich bread is out unless it's a later meal and I need it. And a Diabetic diet is a good choice for lots of people. I read so many threads here of poeple starving themselves and hungry as hell. I have yet to be hungry. And I eat 5 small meals/snacks a day. Pretty much every 3 hours I am snacking on something healthy for me. And yes, spreading out your carbs is good. You don't feel so drained like you do when you eat a big portion all at once. I also try to eat my carbs with a good healthy fat because it helps work the carbs better.

Ok, this is good information for me. So does sugar have the same effect on my body as it does on those that have diabetes? I’m thinking it does, but I do not suffer the effects because I don’t have diabetes. In other words, I am able to eat "less healthy" than those that are diabetic. For me, it means I have a choice. Before I began taking fitness seriously, I ignored the nutritional balance in my diet entirely. Now, I think I should choose to eat more like those that are diabetic than not. But I am just wired such that I have to know the elemental issues at the lowest level I can. So now, I want to what cause diabetes and why foods have such have a profound effect.
  3644620

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