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TOPIC: Meat eater, vegetarian or vegan?? Which are you?

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July 6, 2013 12:51 PM
meat eater
July 6, 2013 1:04 PM
I am an Omnivore in the vein of B.Kingsolver and M.Pollan: mostly organic locally grown plants rounded out with legumes, nuts & seeds, fish, some whole grains, plus fruit, dairy & eggs, and a little meat--especially stocks. There is not much room for homemade sweets or salty snacks-but there is a wee bit of room. I left.no room for drive-up fast food or sodapop.
Edited by lpina2mi On July 6, 2013 1:05 PM
  36002775
July 6, 2013 1:14 PM
More or less a vegetarian, although I don't make it a point to be. I don't mind eating meat I just can't remember the last time I had it. I mostly eat eggs, almonds, and other stuff for my protein.
  9677368
July 6, 2013 2:32 PM
Interestingly, in some of the traditional cuisines of China and India, women do not eat meat (among those cuisines that include meat--and a surprising number of them do). Men do not seem to fare as well on a diet that excludes meat, fish, or eggs. There are those men who seem to thrive on vegan diets, but vegan male athletes seem to eat enormous amounts of food in order to meet their protein requirements which begets the question of: This benefits the environment, how?
  29734726
July 6, 2013 2:44 PM
QUOTE:

Interestingly, in some of the traditional cuisines of China and India, women do not eat meat (among those cuisines that include meat--and a surprising number of them do). Men do not seem to fare as well on a diet that excludes meat, fish, or eggs. There are those men who seem to thrive on vegan diets, but vegan male athletes seem to eat enormous amounts of food in order to meet their protein requirements which begets the question of: This benefits the environment, how?


Can you provide a source/study on the statement that men do not seem to fare as well on a diet that excludes meat, fish or eggs?

When people don't pay attention to their nutrient intake, it's easy for them to come consistently under in protein, vitamins and minerals - whether they eat animal products or not. Protein is not difficult to get from a plant-based diet, you just need to do your research.

In regard to the environment - a vegan athlete consuming a large amount of food will ultimately consume less resources than an athlete who consumes large amounts of meat, eggs and dairy, as we factor in not only the plant matter that the athlete himself eats, but also the resources that it takes to get the meat, eggs and dairy to his plate.
July 6, 2013 3:49 PM
My order of food, based on how much I eat them-

1. beef and pork
2. veggies and mushrooms
3. eggs
4. dairy (cheese, butter and plain Greek yogurt)
5. fruit
6. misc stuff
July 6, 2013 4:06 PM
QUOTE:

QUOTE:

Interestingly, in some of the traditional cuisines of China and India, women do not eat meat (among those cuisines that include meat--and a surprising number of them do). Men do not seem to fare as well on a diet that excludes meat, fish, or eggs. There are those men who seem to thrive on vegan diets, but vegan male athletes seem to eat enormous amounts of food in order to meet their protein requirements which begets the question of: This benefits the environment, how?


When people don't pay attention to their nutrient intake, it's easy for them to come consistently under in protein, vitamins and minerals - whether they eat animal products or not. Protein is not difficult to get from a plant-based diet, you just need to do your research.

In regard to the environment - a vegan athlete consuming a large amount of food will ultimately consume less resources than an athlete who consumes large amounts of meat, eggs and dairy, as we factor in not only the plant matter that the athlete himself eats, but also the resources that it takes to get the meat, eggs and dairy to his plate.


"...When people don't pay attention to their nutrient intake, it's easy for them to come consistently under in protein, vitamins and minerals - whether they eat animal products or not. Protein is not difficult to get from a plant-based diet, you just need to do your research..."

And that's just the problem, isn't it? How many people have the knowledge to combine vegetable proteins to get the proper mix of proteins to make complete proteins? Nature has conveniently provided complete proteins in animal sourced protein. There is the additional problem of exclusively plant-based diets containing large amounts of phytic acid and that phytic acid interferes with mineral absorption. The minerals in animal products are very bioavailable.

"...In regard to the environment - a vegan athlete consuming a large amount of food will ultimately consume less resources than an athlete who consumes large amounts of meat, eggs and dairy, as we factor in not only the plant matter that the athlete himself eats, but also the resources that it takes to get the meat, eggs and dairy to his plate..."

I wouldn't be so quick to assert that. Grazing animals are often raised on marginal farm land or land that is otherwise simply not suitable for crop growing. Animals are grazed on land in areas with growing seasons that are too short for most crops or even on semi-desert land. When you account for the fact that crop-growing requires prime farm land, the draining of aquifers and LOTS of chemicals to make raising them efficient, it is not at all clear that what you have said is anything other than vegan propaganda. There is also the problem of monoculture of crops that could lead to dire circumstances one day--especially when combined with the cultivation of genetically modified plants.
  29734726
July 7, 2013 8:43 PM
To continue on the "sentience" thing from the other thread, someone said this:

QUOTE:

Do your research. Sentient doesn't mean able to feel. It means capable of self-awareness, abstract thinking, the ability to REASON, not just learn. VERY few animals ( maybe cetaceans) outside of the great apes. Biology/Science 101. And I'm not trying to "make myself feel better about it", because I'm a firm believer in using/raising/killing animals for food. I've killed and cleaned my share of meat for the table, and I feel just fine about it.


Nope. What you're talking about is sapience, which is entirely different from sentience. Sapience means the ability to be self-aware and to reason, etc. It shares the same root as our species name, sapiens. (As in, Homo sapiens.) The great apes and the cetaceans most certainly are sapient, as are elephants. Other animals...Who knows, really? The tests done for sentience are decidedly biased, judging another species to be "sapient" in general only if it's "like us." In the sense that, since we think we're sapient, then for another species to be considered sapient it must have "human-like" qualities in terms of being able to learn, react, self-recognize, and communicate. And that ain't necessarily so. For all we know, worms are sapient, but just not in any way that we'd recognize.

Sentience on the other hand is "merely" the ability to experience and react to sensory input like visual and auditory input, the ability to distinguish tastes, the ability to smell and distinguish different scents, the ability to distinguish temperature, and indeed the ability to feel pain. (The concept of suffering, on the other hand, is relative and highly subjective.) Pretty much ALL animals are sentient, with the possible exception of things like sponges and jellyfish. In fact, many animals are "more sentient" than humans are, in that they can see, hear, smell, and generally detect and interpret sensory input way better than we can.

So...Do YOUR research. And don't listen to Star Trek; the writers of that show get this wrong ALL the time. smile (Note: Not coming down on you; it's a common mistake. But you ARE wrong when you say that animals aren't sentient. All of the ones that we use as food, domesticated or otherwise (including fish and critters like lobsters and squid and insects), are indeed sentient, and they most certainly feel pain when killed/slaughtered, however briefly.)

All that said...I am a vegan, but not for any ethical reasons. I have recently been diagnosed with both heart and liver failure, thanks to 42 years of living with a faulty-from-birth aortic valve in my heart that no one bothered to diagnose properly until a few months ago. As a result of the enlarged and failing liver, my doctor advised jettisoning all animal protein from my diet, as animal proteins are harder for the liver to digest. Also, I have to severely limit sodium. So...here I am. It was a relatively easy transition for me, since I'd been ovo-lacto vegetarian pretty much all my life because I simply never liked the taste/texture of meat and refused to eat it. I thought I'd miss cheese, but I don't. The only thing I've found I'm missing is my daily yogurt. I tried an almond-milk one the other day, and it was icky. I'm also avoiding soy, so I'm looking for a non-icky yogurt made from rice milk or maybe coconut milk, but haven't found any in the grocery store. (Not surprising, as I live in the middle of nowhere in Ranch Land, where meat and potatoes reign supreme.) So I suppose I'll have to cave and go to the "local" health food store. Which is a haul away and really, really expensive, but...I want yogurt, dangit! laugh
July 7, 2013 9:00 PM
Pescetarian flexatarian. :-)
July 7, 2013 9:03 PM
QUOTE:

To continue on the "sentience" thing from the other thread, someone said this:

QUOTE:

Do your research. Sentient doesn't mean able to feel. It means capable of self-awareness, abstract thinking, the ability to REASON, not just learn. VERY few animals ( maybe cetaceans) outside of the great apes. Biology/Science 101. And I'm not trying to "make myself feel better about it", because I'm a firm believer in using/raising/killing animals for food. I've killed and cleaned my share of meat for the table, and I feel just fine about it.


Nope. What you're talking about is sapience, which is entirely different from sentience. Sapience means the ability to be self-aware and to reason, etc. It shares the same root as our species name, sapiens. (As in, Homo sapiens.) The great apes and the cetaceans most certainly are sapient, as are elephants. Other animals...Who knows, really? The tests done for sentience are decidedly biased, judging another species to be "sapient" in general only if it's "like us." In the sense that, since we think we're sapient, then for another species to be considered sapient it must have "human-like" qualities in terms of being able to learn, react, self-recognize, and communicate. And that ain't necessarily so. For all we know, worms are sapient, but just not in any way that we'd recognize.

Sentience on the other hand is "merely" the ability to experience and react to sensory input like visual and auditory input, the ability to distinguish tastes, the ability to smell and distinguish different scents, the ability to distinguish temperature, and indeed the ability to feel pain. (The concept of suffering, on the other hand, is relative and highly subjective.) Pretty much ALL animals are sentient, with the possible exception of things like sponges and jellyfish. In fact, many animals are "more sentient" than humans are, in that they can see, hear, smell, and generally detect and interpret sensory input way better than we can.

So...Do YOUR research. And don't listen to Star Trek; the writers of that show get this wrong ALL the time. smile (Note: Not coming down on you; it's a common mistake. But you ARE wrong when you say that animals aren't sentient. All of the ones that we use as food, domesticated or otherwise (including fish and critters like lobsters and squid and insects), are indeed sentient, and they most certainly feel pain when killed/slaughtered, however briefly.)

All that said...I am a vegan, but not for any ethical reasons. I have recently been diagnosed with both heart and liver failure, thanks to 42 years of living with a faulty-from-birth aortic valve in my heart that no one bothered to diagnose properly until a few months ago. As a result of the enlarged and failing liver, my doctor advised jettisoning all animal protein from my diet, as animal proteins are harder for the liver to digest. Also, I have to severely limit sodium. So...here I am. It was a relatively easy transition for me, since I'd been ovo-lacto vegetarian pretty much all my life because I simply never liked the taste/texture of meat and refused to eat it. I thought I'd miss cheese, but I don't. The only thing I've found I'm missing is my daily yogurt. I tried an almond-milk one the other day, and it was icky. I'm also avoiding soy, so I'm looking for a non-icky yogurt made from rice milk or maybe coconut milk, but haven't found any in the grocery store. (Not surprising, as I live in the middle of nowhere in Ranch Land, where meat and potatoes reign supreme.) So I suppose I'll have to cave and go to the "local" health food store. Which is a haul away and really, really expensive, but...I want yogurt, dangit! laugh


Um, kudos for having a doctor with a brain in their head willing to give u good advice that goes against big pharm. two thumbs up!
July 7, 2013 9:05 PM
QUOTE:

I am an Omnivore in the vein of B.Kingsolver and M.Pollan: mostly organic locally grown plants rounded out with legumes, nuts & seeds, fish, some whole grains, plus fruit, dairy & eggs, and a little meat--especially stocks. There is not much room for homemade sweets or salty snacks-but there is a wee bit of room. I left.no room for drive-up fast food or sodapop.


Thumbs up! :-)
July 7, 2013 9:06 PM
I am more of a vegetarian than anything. I like meat on occasion and in most of my meals I try to add a little to be more 'healthy'. but i love salads like chicken salad, ground pork salad, ect. And I also love veggies and fruits! not much of a meat fan. I do like eggs though. The only meat we have in our house is boneless skinless chicken breasts, ground pork, and occasionally deli sliced turky. :) I do not mind it at like bbqs and stuff though
  39558017
July 7, 2013 9:07 PM
A little of each.
  41152158
July 7, 2013 9:07 PM
Caveman
July 7, 2013 9:07 PM
I'm a big meat eater for sure. I have nothing against vegetarians/vegans, and I feel like if I never question them on their choices, they shouldn't question me on mine. To each their own:)
  39083119
July 7, 2013 9:19 PM
Pesca, but like to keep it vegan sometimes (but I love eggs, honey, cheese, fish.. yogurt... I swear, that's it!)

Can't stand any dairy but cheese and yogurt, haven't eaten meat besides fish in 2 years.
July 7, 2013 9:29 PM
QUOTE:

Um, kudos for having a doctor with a brain in their head willing to give u good advice that goes against big pharm. two thumbs up!


Never fear, I've got plenty of big pharm, too. ACE inhibitor, beta blocker, diuretic, blood thinner, etc. etc. Most likely, I'll be on all of them for the rest of my life. I may be able to get rid of some of them once I get the valve replaced, but maybe not. There's a lot of damage. Definitely I'll be on the blood thinner for the rest of my life. But I'm OK with that. But as for the diet...Yeah, the doc's pretty savvy. Or maybe it's just because the issue is that my liver is being starved of oxygen and there's no drug that can fix that, aside from treating the heart condition that's causing the starvation. In the meantime, I need to baby it and hope that the damage that's been done can heal without scarring. But it's kind of a Catch-22; the liver needs protein to heal but too much will just make it work harder and cause more damage. So, it's a careful balancing act, and plant proteins are better for me than animal ones. At the moment, at least. But really, even if that changes I see no reason to go back to eating dairy/eggs. I get plenty of (complete) protein and plenty of vitamins and minerals (including calcium, since I love me some greens) without them, without any cholesterol and without any unhealthy fat. All I do is take a B vitamin supplement. Good to go.

Well, assuming that I can find something to cure the yogurt want, that is...
July 7, 2013 9:32 PM
Meat eater :-)
  5279186
July 7, 2013 9:32 PM
Meat eater, but I aspire to be a vegan one day. Seriously. Vegans are a step above the rest of us on the evolutionary scale of ethics and morality.
July 7, 2013 9:35 PM
Gluten-free, mostly dairy-free, vegetarian
  11003289
July 7, 2013 9:36 PM
Pescetarian/vegetarian without dairy. Can't have it. Been debating going vegan. laugh
July 7, 2013 9:37 PM
Vegetarian for 25 years...
July 7, 2013 10:07 PM
My family has been heavily impacted by cancer, which help me solidify my decision to never eat anything from an animal again. I have been plant-based now for just about a year, and all I can say is... "I feel amazing". This is huge for me since I probably consumed more animal products during my life than the average american, due to following a bodybuilder lifestyle.

Although I'm no longer a bodybuilder, I still stay pretty fit doing workouts similar to Crossfit and riding mountain bikes. One of the big benefits that I have seen from eating plant-based is recovery and stamina. For instance, I have been riding only about 4 to 5 times a month on my road or mount bike, and yesterday we went to Tahoe and hammered out a 30 mile mountain bike ride at 8000+ feet in 3.5 hours. Today, although i'm a little tired, my legs are not sore nor did I experience any lactic acid build up during the ride.

If you think you need to eat animal to get your protein, then ask yourself this. "How many people do I know who are protein deficient?" just a question... :)
July 7, 2013 10:16 PM
With no further ado..... Bring on the beef!!!
  38413673
July 7, 2013 10:24 PM
QUOTE:

I'm a big meat eater for sure. I have nothing against vegetarians/vegans, and I feel like if I never question them on their choices, they shouldn't question me on mine. To each their own:)


This plus one. Been with my vegitarian wife for 12 years. Yet on my birthday she takes me to a steak house to get my rare steak. I eat meat with almost every meal. Except on her birthdays lol. A favorite was the moosewood in Ithaca. Or the meltingpot. ( thank heavens she does cheese!!!)

I will add that I've moved from hamburger to turkey for almost everything and the red stuff is now a super treat. I don't miss it as much as I thought.

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